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Thread: Bard = Most balanced soul?

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    Plane Touched Shyessa's Avatar
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    Default Bard = Most balanced soul?

    Trion keep messing/tinkering with other souls but not bard. One year passed and the only difference from day one is Trion just put Coda of Jeopardy into bard soul?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shyessa View Post
    Trion keep messing/tinkering with other souls but not bard. One year passed and the only difference from day one is Trion just put Coda of Jeopardy into bard soul?
    They got a "much needed" outta combat rez that I could care less about. Having critters follow you since 1.0 = Rogue class fail.
    Last edited by Petgroup; 01-29-2012 at 10:52 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyle View Post
    A rogue can top the parse on every boss in HK if they use the right spec, and it's been that way for months.

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    RIFT Guide Writer Zyzyx's Avatar
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    They've been adding synergy to all of the rogue souls since 1.5. I fully expect to see the bard "looked at" in 1.9 or 2.0.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

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    Shadowlander Bloodangel90's Avatar
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    How about a longer duration on motif's like we have been asking for since the start of the god damn game?
    Last edited by Bloodangel90; 01-29-2012 at 11:45 AM. Reason: spelling

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    RIFT Guide Writer Gyle's Avatar
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    Bard is probably the least broken soul in this entire game. It's not part of any OP specs, one is required in every 20 man raid force, and often in 10 man's as well. It is at base very simple to use, however a skilled bard is noticeable when compared to an unskilled one. I would not expect bard to be looked at or changed for a long time.

    We may be able to guilt them into a combat rez and/or a cleanse at some point, but don't expect the basic playstyle of bard to change. "If it ain't broke don't fix it"
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    Plane Touched Shyessa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gyle View Post
    Bard is probably the least broken soul in this entire game. It's not part of any OP specs, one is required in every 20 man raid force, and often in 10 man's as well. It is at base very simple to use, however a skilled bard is noticeable when compared to an unskilled one. I would not expect bard to be looked at or changed for a long time.

    We may be able to guilt them into a combat rez and/or a cleanse at some point, but don't expect the basic playstyle of bard to change. "If it ain't broke don't fix it"
    Is bard balacned in PVP? Having cleanse would be great!! I love playing bard in wf even I always get my butt kicked every time.

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    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gyle View Post
    Bard is probably the least broken soul in this entire game. It's not part of any OP specs, one is required in every 20 man raid force, and often in 10 man's as well. It is at base very simple to use, however a skilled bard is noticeable when compared to an unskilled one. I would not expect bard to be looked at or changed for a long time.

    We may be able to guilt them into a combat rez and/or a cleanse at some point, but don't expect the basic playstyle of bard to change. "If it ain't broke don't fix it"
    I really don't understand this logic.... so you're saying that having raid buffs automatically makes a soul balanced?

    So if bard only had fervor, runspeed, resonance and all the motifs it would still be balanced? What if there was no cadence or healing at all... they'd still be required in raids for the buffs (especially runspeed).

    By that same logic you could reduce the duration on motifs to 5 seconds and you'd still think the class was fine.

    If bard was balanced, people would use it in 5 mans, it wouldn't be a raid only build. End of story. As far as I'm concerned, when a soul is never used outside of raids it's broken.
    Last edited by Mayi; 01-29-2012 at 12:35 PM.
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    Shadowlander Machin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayi View Post
    I really don't understand this logic.... so you're saying that having raid buffs automatically makes a soul balanced?

    So if bard only had fervor, runspeed, resonance and all the motifs it would still be balanced? What if there was no cadence or healing at all... they'd still be required in raids for the buffs (especially runspeed).

    By that same logic you could reduce the duration on motifs to 5 seconds and you'd still think the class was fine.

    If bard was balanced, people would use it in 5 mans, it wouldn't be a raid only build. End of story. As far as I'm concerned, when a soul is never used outside of raids it's broken.
    I think the question is in the purpose of the soul, and the validity of the belief that every soul should be homogenized to do exactly the same thing.
    In my mind, a -support- soul has more attributable-DPS and less direct-DPS. So, according to that principle, it's straight math as to whether a bard is worthy of a group/raid slot.
    Simply expand the numbers to illustrate the point: If a raid were 100-strong and all bard effects hit everyone, CoJ/motifs would only need to increase dps by ~1.333% to make up for the loss of a DPS slot. Easily achievable. And that's not even dealing with the healing, which the bard does more than any other Rogue souls.

    So I guess the question would be better stated: When is the bards attributable-DPS less than the difference between the direct-DPS of the Bard and the best DPS of any other build?

    Of course, if meters could take the attributable-DPS and credit it properly to the bard, perhaps people would feel more satisfaction at the end of an encounter. /shrug
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    Rift Disciple Rahlos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shyessa View Post
    Is bard balacned in PVP? Having cleanse would be great!! I love playing bard in wf even I always get my butt kicked every time.
    Yes it is, but to me it sounds like you might have the wrong spec. PvP Bards go Tankish and serve as a distraction to the masses. You objective is to get killed and annoy the other team, and stay up a long as possible. With the AoE debuff from RS, CCs, heals, and debuffs, they should target you. Jump around, warp, don't stop moving, use power chord and RS builders and heal yourself.

    While everyone attacks you, your team mates should have finished the objectives and taken out healers.

    ______________________________________________

    Bard is pretty much perfect as it is, a Brez or a Cleanse (The latter would be better) Would make it better but it really is fine right now. I guess us musicians are just that awesome.

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    Plane Touched Shyessa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rahlos View Post
    Yes it is, but to me it sounds like you might have the wrong spec. PvP Bards go Tankish and serve as a distraction to the masses. You objective is to get killed and annoy the other team, and stay up a long as possible. With the AoE debuff from RS, CCs, heals, and debuffs, they should target you. Jump around, warp, don't stop moving, use power chord and RS builders and heal yourself.

    While everyone attacks you, your team mates should have finished the objectives and taken out healers.

    ______________________________________________

    Bard is pretty much perfect as it is, a Brez or a Cleanse (The latter would be better) Would make it better but it really is fine right now. I guess us musicians are just that awesome.
    Ahh I see. Except that trolling spec, is the support spec viable in PVP? And my objective is "to get killed"? /sadface
    Last edited by Shyessa; 01-29-2012 at 04:26 PM.

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    Rift Disciple Rahlos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shyessa View Post
    Ahh I see. Except that trolling spec, is the support spec viable in PVP? And my objective is "to get killed"? /sadface
    "and stay up a long as possible"

    No,support based Bard isnt PvP Viable, and its kind of useless for PvP, Verse of Joy isnt as much help as a raid. And the INT buff is close to useless as mages one shot everything anyway. Motifs and Jeopardy however, VERY USEFUL. If you Jep the healer your DPS buddies can down it so much easier. But you ca also do that in the "trolling spec"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayi View Post
    If bard was balanced, people would use it in 5 mans, it wouldn't be a raid only build. End of story. As far as I'm concerned, when a soul is never used outside of raids it's broken.
    I solo-heal 5-mans with Bard.

    Only thing better, and that depends on composition, is an inquisicar or shamicar. More warriors/rogues = Bard is better.
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    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koe View Post
    I solo-heal 5-mans with Bard.

    Only thing better, and that depends on composition, is an inquisicar or shamicar. More warriors/rogues = Bard is better.
    So do I, runspeed makes the run faster. Thing is, I bet we both outgear the 5 man.

    Could we solo heal a 5 man with a group all wearing T1 gear? I don't think so, but there's where the difficulty is set gearwise.

    About dps attributable to bard through buffs... before the SO change and bards getting CoJ a warrior tank added more to raid dps then a bard. Good thing we healed too.

    As it is now, it's probably close depending on raid comp. If you rely on your MT for armor debuffs it's probably about the same excluding CoJ. We raided without an archon on the first couple of bosses in HK once too, surprisingly little drop in dps too.
    Last edited by Mayi; 01-29-2012 at 05:20 PM.
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    Prophet of Telara Torvaldr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gyle View Post
    Bard is probably the least broken soul in this entire game. It's not part of any OP specs, one is required in every 20 man raid force, and often in 10 man's as well. It is at base very simple to use, however a skilled bard is noticeable when compared to an unskilled one. I would not expect bard to be looked at or changed for a long time.

    We may be able to guilt them into a combat rez and/or a cleanse at some point, but don't expect the basic playstyle of bard to change. "If it ain't broke don't fix it"
    I mostly agree with this as well. I would say the cleanse would be really nice to beefing up the bard and making it well rounded. The IC rez would be nice too, but is less important in my opinion. Motifs need a better way to be applied and rebuffed. It's not that they're bad, but the whole thing feels kludgy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Koe View Post
    I solo-heal 5-mans with Bard.

    Only thing better, and that depends on composition, is an inquisicar or shamicar. More warriors/rogues = Bard is better.
    I'm not a super bard, but I can heal T1s no real problem and maybe T2s if the tank and the rest of the group is geared.

    The problem is you can't have a fully staffed group and queue for a random with a bard as a healer. You must bring a "dedicated healer" who will switch to a dps role. If a fully formed group could actually queue as they want it would be okay.

    Also as I said above to allow bard the full heal role without being overgeared bards would need the cleanse, IC rez, and a slight healing buff.
    Last edited by Torvaldr; 01-29-2012 at 06:57 PM.

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    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    If you can keep your bard alive in PvP combat and you have a good quantity of raid/group members around that bard it is a very good bang for buck class in combo with other good players behind theirs. It has a degree of situational awareness you can use for burst moments. The debuffs aren't overly terrible and can really add salt in the wound to a focus fire.

    I guess it's the fact that a 51 bard is a purple flag they don't know where to go because they seem to not want efficient stand alone healing to be capable from energy classes. But adding/adjust buffs they have to be careful with because if done right, its a bang for your buck kind of thing.

    I'm sure they have ideas about the bard though just taking time on it to do it right. Probably a mix of some more direction in the supportive way and consolidation of abilities to make room for others. Just a random guess though.
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