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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: State of the rogue (pre-1.7)

  1. #1
    RIFT Guide Writer Zyzyx's Avatar
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    Default State of the rogue (pre-1.7)

    Overall there are some great changes on the horizon for rogues in 1.7 ,but some problems still remain.

    1. Saboteur is still extinct as a soul. I know many people still feel resentment at being forced into sabdancer for so long ,but some of us really enjoy the style of the saboteur soul. In its current state using saboteur is a detriment to your raid in the amount of damage you bring to your raid. Hopefully some large changes can be made in time to make this soul viable in time for 1.7.

    The easiest fix here is to change the rogue synergy crystal to effect residual shrapnel and high explosives two of the largest damage contributers of the soul. Currently the saboteur synergy crystal is easily one of the worst synergy crystals in the game.

    2. Rogue AoE dps is pitiful. Perhaps any solution to saboteur or the change to compound attack will change this.

    I recommend changing fan out to a combo point generator and crossfire to an aoe finisher. Ranger's Concussive blast should be adjusted into a more useful aoe finisher as well, even if it needs to lose its interrupt capability. Nightblade could use a new finisher for this purpose as well.

    3. Marksman was overnerfed in 1.6. Marksman came in 1.5 and amazed us all that it could do competitive dps with other callings after long being the red headed step child of the rogue callings. 1.6 reduced the synergy crystal bonus of EM and removed the proc from IQS.

    The synergy crystal should be returned to 50% bonus to EM damage since daglar has stated that the devs felt the iqs and em relationship was too powerful.

    4. Leeching poison still not strong enough. I'd love for this to become an alternative to rift scavenger instead of a supplement while leveling or grinding pve. Due to ICD and poor scaling(yes even after the two buffs). Something similar to salvation or BoEA.

    Obviously any changes would need to be done in such a way so as to not make leeching overpowered in pvp.
    Last edited by Zyzyx; 01-25-2012 at 10:45 AM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

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    Ascendant Gunzip's Avatar
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    Good job Zyz, you have my support
    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    I believe Assassin DoTs are uncleansable.

    It's still a terrible PvP spec compared to Marksman, though.

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    Plane Walker Enaki's Avatar
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    I used to listen to Zyzyx until I saw him dead in a pile of gold coins on Ember Isle. It was such a sad sight that the rest of his guild showed up and threw a party. Or did they throw a Zone Event? I can't remember, the details are all a bit hazy.
    Telarans on class balance: Rock is overpowered. Paper is fine. - Scissors

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    RIFT Guide Writer Zyzyx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enaki View Post
    I used to listen to Zyzyx until I saw him dead in a pile of gold coins on Ember Isle. It was such a sad sight that the rest of his guild showed up and threw a party. Or did they throw a Zone Event? I can't remember, the details are all a bit hazy.
    I was totally expecting an "arrow in the knee" joke when I started reading this. Now I'm just confused.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

  5. #5
    Sword of Telara Gynxz's Avatar
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    Its the same pattern as for 1.6.

    "We know Rogue tanks are not competitive so this are the buffs we will be giving them
    Buff A
    Buff B

    Btw Warr Tanks will be getting this set of 5 buffs come 1.6"

    Same thing now. We get a few tweaks that gets us closer (not on par) with warrs and they buff Warrs again. so whats the point. Trion has no intention (proven patch after patch" of making PvE classes competitive.

    Also funny to remember the nerf to Sabo's Shrapnel "An Aoe skill should nevr be the best single target option" LOL. Every day I see less Rogues in raids. 1 bard-2 MM and w/e we need to fill spots when we miss other classes

  6. #6
    Ascendant Adnoz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zyzyx View Post

    Overall there are some great changes on the horizon for rogues in 1.7 ,but some problems still remain.

    1. Saboteur is still extinct as a soul. I know many people still feel resentment at being forced into sabdancer for so long ,but some of us really enjoy the style of the saboteur soul. In its current state using saboteur is a detriment to your raid in the amount of damage you bring to your raid. Hopefully some large changes can be made in time to make this soul viable in time for 1.7.

    The easiest fix here is to change the rogue synergy crystal to effect residual shrapnel and high explosives two of the largest damage contributers of the soul. Currently the saboteur synergy crystal is easily one of the worst synergy crystals in the game.

    2. Rogue AoE dps is pitiful. Perhaps any solution to saboteur or the change to compound attack will change this.

    I recommend changing fan out to a combo point generator and crossfire to an aoe finisher. Ranger's Concussive blast should be adjusted into a more useful aoe finisher as well, even if it needs to lose its interrupt capability. Nightblade could use a new finisher for this purpose as well.

    3. Marksman was overnerfed in 1.6. Marksman came in 1.5 and amazed us all that it could do competitive dps with other callings after long being the red headed step child of the rogue callings. 1.6 reduced the synergy crystal bonus of EM and removed the proc from IQS.

    The synergy crystal should be returned to 50% bonus to EM damage since daglar has stated that the devs felt the iqs and em relationship was too powerful.

    4. Leeching poison still not strong enough. I'd love for this to become an alternative to rift scavenger instead of a supplement while leveling or grinding pve. Due to ICD and poor scaling(yes even after the two buffs). Something similar to salvation or BoEA.

    Obviously any changes would need to be done in such a way so as to not make leeching overpowered in pvp.
    Didn't read anything except this and probably won't but I just wanted to quote and fix some things

    1. FORGET SABO IT IS STUPID
    2. FORGET SABO IT IS STUPID give AoE to BD.
    3. I agree, also, FORGET SABO IT IS STUPID
    4. u kiddin bro? leeching poison is actually pretty awesome right now. FORGET SABO IT IS STUPID

    (Gear)

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    Ascendant Gunzip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adnoz View Post
    Didn't read anything except this and probably won't but I just wanted to quote and fix some things

    1. FORGET SABO IT IS STUPID
    2. FORGET SABO IT IS STUPID give AoE to BD.
    3. I agree, also, FORGET SABO IT IS STUPID
    4. u kiddin bro? leeching poison is actually pretty awesome right now. FORGET SABO IT IS STUPID
    Something tells me you miss Sabo lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    I believe Assassin DoTs are uncleansable.

    It's still a terrible PvP spec compared to Marksman, though.

  8. #8
    Ascendant Am0n's Avatar
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    Is leeching poison dynamic now or still broke? Havent had much time to test.
    "You lost me at Balance"

  9. #9
    Prophet of Telara Venditte's Avatar
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    Sabo, like the cleric druid soul, is broken and 99% of the stuff in it is useless. Don't waste time fixing it, just forget about it, Trion. Fix up the souls that actually need it first(which they're doing very well). I've been playing my rogue a lot and getting him HK ready, so I already love these changes.

  10. #10
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    I really hate Saboteur and everything about it. I would rather the soul get rid of detonate and just have the charges do instant damage because the soul is just garbage on adds and any mobs that are low on health.

    The changes to Bladedancer are nice but the core of the soul has major streamline problems. The soul is only worth playing while one of its cooldowns are active. That is not how you build a class. The class needs to be less reliant on cooldowns (Isnt that why Marksman was changed in 1.5?) and the damage needs to be spread out.

    All the souls in general need more AoE finishers so Rogues arent total crap when it comes to AoE.

    When ever Rogues get nerfed I believe its completely based on PvP feedback and Trion hasnt done any changes that are only active in PvP since like 1.4. Marksman was over-nerfed based on PvP garbage and again by inaccurate parses. Silvertiped Muntions is now crap for AoE and there is no reason why that needed a nerf in PvE, same for Electrified Munitions. I can understand how people would complain for PvP purposes but theres no reason to nerf PvE because people complain in PvP and Im getting really sick of it.
    Last edited by Vindicit; 01-17-2012 at 09:36 PM.

  11. #11
    RIFT Guide Writer Gyle's Avatar
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    1. Before they can fix Sabo they need to kill off Sabdancer. However, on the whole, i really don't care.

    2. Maybe BD is going to be the solution for this, but again, i really don't care. Our problem is that our ST DPS is not where it should be given our sacrifice in the AoE department. AoE dps is pretty meaningless anyway.

    3. I agree actually, people love to point fingers about the MM change, but IMO the crystal should have been nerfed, and IQS left as it was (like every other dot in the game of it's kind). However, since they are not going back on the seriously stupid IQS change, the crystal should be un-nerfed. This is the only thing in your post i kinda care about.

    4. Leeching Poison? See above, don't care.
    Hastati (50 warrior), Tsar (50 cleric), Tsaritsa (50 Mage)
    Guides: 51 Bladedancer, Bloodstalker, Nightblade
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    5/8 ID; HK Conqueror

  12. #12
    Champion Coffande's Avatar
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    15% armor pen for charges.
    DD through Compound attack.
    25% ap contribution to charges (not sure).

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...xsb.VcMcEb0o0o

    Is Sabdancer back as a viable AoE-build?

    4x Shrapnell - Twin Strke - Compound Attack - Shrapnell (- Twin Strike?) - Detonate
    5x Shrapnell - Detonate
    Last edited by Coffande; 01-18-2012 at 04:17 AM.

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    Plane Walker Rizz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coffande View Post
    15% armor pen for charges.
    DD through Compound attack.
    25% ap contribution to charges (not sure).

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...xsb.VcMcEb0o0o

    Is Sabdancer back as a viable AoE-build?

    4x Shrapnell - Twin Strke - Compound Attack - Shrapnell (- Twin Strike?) - Detonate
    5x Shrapnell - Detonate
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...xcb.VcMcyb0o0o is probably better, else you'll likely end up energy dry.
    Rathi@Gelidra <Invictus>
    IRotP: Conqueror | NM TD: 4/4

  14. #14
    RIFT Guide Writer Gyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coffande View Post
    15% armor pen for charges.
    DD through Compound attack.
    25% ap contribution to charges (not sure).

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...xsb.VcMcEb0o0o

    Is Sabdancer back as a viable AoE-build?

    4x Shrapnell - Twin Strke - Compound Attack - Shrapnell (- Twin Strike?) - Detonate
    5x Shrapnell - Detonate
    Quote Originally Posted by Rizz View Post
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...xcb.VcMcyb0o0o is probably better, else you'll likely end up energy dry.

    This is what im talking about with Sabo. Any change they make to Sabo is only going to exacerbate the unintended synergy between these souls. They will never be able to balance Sabo in its own right as long as charges are treated as special with regard to DD.

    Then again, i don't think anything short of 10k AoE dps is going to make me spec into Sabdancer again. **** that spec.
    Hastati (50 warrior), Tsar (50 cleric), Tsaritsa (50 Mage)
    Guides: 51 Bladedancer, Bloodstalker, Nightblade
    DPS Rogue <Trinity>
    5/8 ID; HK Conqueror

  15. #15
    Champion Coffande's Avatar
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    I'm ok with 1pt into combat efficiency. I rather take a tablet than put more pts into it.
    backstab and puncture is arguable aswell, but works either way.

    The build has scaling problems tho. But might be worth a try for those that liked sabdancer (it was OKish to play).

    The lack of a decent synergycrystal is bad too... (bladedancer could be viable if you drop puncture/backstab and use keen+prec/quick).

    30% after incriminate doesn't do anything when charges are alrdy buffed by 150ish%.
    Last edited by Coffande; 01-18-2012 at 04:33 AM.

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