+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Marksman Raiding question...51mm/15sin vs 49mm/17sin, is STM better?

  1. #1
    Telaran
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    98

    Default Marksman Raiding question...51mm/15sin vs 49mm/17sin, is STM better?

    I currently use 51mm/15rng/0inf spec which I understand does the most dps, well 51/14/1 is prob the highest. I like it a lot for T1/T2 dungeons, but I'm just now getting into raiding so.....

    Well I see a lot of people like 51mm/15sin/xx which is lower dps, but for a new raider, might be easier to use. I was thinking getting the extra crit damage if I go 17 sin might be better then the damage from silver tipped munitions. I was wondering if anyone tested this and what they thought.

    Thanks,

    Malar
    Shortround the Vanquisher: member of Havoc on Keenblade
    Malar the Retired!!

  2. #2
    Telaran
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    98

    Default

    One more thing, what about 46mm/20sin? Baneful Touch, increased poison damage, and poison malice would seem to help, but I know every point in MM I lose, my dps goes down. Is this enough to compare?
    Shortround the Vanquisher: member of Havoc on Keenblade
    Malar the Retired!!

  3. #3
    Rift Disciple Harlan Nimue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    178

    Default

    Electrified Munitions is ~30% of a MM's dps. Why would you drop that to get baneful and use poisons?

    2 points in MM (to stay 51) nets you 10% flat dmg. Putting 2 points into Cruel Vengence (assuming the 15->17 point leap in SIN) nets you 4% damage after a crit. Again, not such a good tradeoff.

  4. #4
    Telaran
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    98

    Default

    I would still use electrified munitions with baneful, afaik, it raises the dps of em.

    Thanks for info about diff between 51mm vs 49mm. I figured with a high crit rate, the 20% increased damage crit might compare.
    Last edited by Malar; 01-05-2012 at 08:28 AM.
    Shortround the Vanquisher: member of Havoc on Keenblade
    Malar the Retired!!

  5. #5
    Soulwalker
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Malar View Post
    I would still use electrified munitions with baneful, afaik, it raises the dps of em.

    Thanks for info about diff between 51mm vs 49mm. I figured with a high crit rate, the 20% increased damage crit might compare.
    Going out on a limb to say that he probably meant Silver Tipped munitions, not electrified.

  6. #6
    Telaran
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    98

    Default

    I see, that makes sense. Using Rending Munition instead, that should hopefully lower the dps difference some w/o silver tipped.

    If I wasn't stuck at work, I would be testing on the combat dummy =P
    Shortround the Vanquisher: member of Havoc on Keenblade
    Malar the Retired!!

  7. #7
    Ascendant JimboTCB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,549

    Default

    Silvertip is pretty much the only reason to go that far down MM in the first place, you pick up so many junk talents that stopping at 49 is ridiculous. Either go full MM, or stop at 30-something, nothing in between.

    And don't use armour debuffs when solo parsing on dummies, it bloats your DPS figures ridiculously. In a raid situation you'll almost always have an armour debuff on the target already, so the added contribution (if any) from your own debuff is negligible.

    And really, there is no single best DPS spec for all situations. 51MM specs have great utility in terms of purge/silence, but for just about every fight where you don't need those, there's a better spec you could pick. Personally I use 51MM/10NB/5RS and an all-instant rotation for fights when I'm purging or silencing, but the rest of the time I use a melee spec.

  8. #8
    Ascendant
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    1,842

    Default

    Not bad questions really. 2 points out of MM loses you silver tipped and 2% damage from master archer(y) as well as a slight EM damage reduction.

    Not going ranger gives you a loss of shadow fire vs. Cruel Veng, due to the crit bonus and 4% damage abilities just about netting to zero (I believe short of elemental-based attacks maybe).

    Loss of shadow fire is also -100 AP due to the greater. Also aspect which is 46 AP.

    Offset is 20% crit damage and no build up time for silver tipped, as well as a greater ability to switch targets due to not losing the silver tipped bonus.

    I'd say the issue is that MM doesn't crit hard enough for the 20% crit damage to effect anything that much other than hasted and deadeye.

    Worth a parse I guess. I'd say 51 MM would win out on ST without switches. 49/17 would win out on switching targets often and AE.
    Last edited by DTM300; 01-05-2012 at 12:01 PM.

  9. #9
    RIFT Guide Writer Gyle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    2,009

    Default

    Don't use 51 MM/15 Sin

    Use 51 MM/13NB/2RS

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...qdAudR.V0x0h.M

    It is the simplest rotation you can get out of MM and puts up almost exactly the same numbers as /15 RNG without having to manage your SF buff, or IQS, or carry that greater around in your source machine.

    I run it in HK every week and it performs so well that there is literally no reason i can think of to EVER run 15 rng unless you are a pure MM rogue and you are trying to seriously min/max it. Even then, the NB version is not off by much at all. For a new raider you will probably get more DPS out of the NB version because it is easier to run at optimum DPS.
    Hastati (50 warrior), Tsar (50 cleric), Tsaritsa (50 Mage)
    Guides: 51 Bladedancer, Bloodstalker, Nightblade
    DPS Rogue <Trinity>
    5/8 ID; HK Conqueror

  10. #10
    Telaran
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    98

    Default

    Thanks Gyle. I didn't think of trying that spec. I think I tried it for dungeons, but swapped and forgot about it.
    Last edited by Malar; 01-05-2012 at 12:19 PM.
    Shortround the Vanquisher: member of Havoc on Keenblade
    Malar the Retired!!

  11. #11
    Ascendant
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    3,105

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Malar View Post
    I would still use electrified munitions with baneful, afaik, it raises the dps of em.

    Thanks for info about diff between 51mm vs 49mm. I figured with a high crit rate, the 20% increased damage crit might compare.
    Afaict, STM is multiplicative. 20% multiplicative vs < 20% multiplicative. Your choice.

  12. #12
    Telaran
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    98

    Default

    I am going to use Gyle's spec for now so I got 51 mm. since I dont have a mm crystal yet, should I use empowered shot in my rotation. I am a big fan of using instant casts.

    Thanks,
    Malar
    Shortround the Vanquisher: member of Havoc on Keenblade
    Malar the Retired!!

  13. #13
    Ascendant JimboTCB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,549

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gyle View Post
    Don't use 51 MM/15 Sin

    Use 51 MM/13NB/2RS

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...qdAudR.V0x0h.M
    I've still never quite decided whether this or 10NB/5RS is better. I guess it depends on how much AP you have, and in near-BIS gear I feel like I do slightly more damage in 5RS, but there's so little difference between them it's barely worth worrying, and I've settled on the 5RS version mostly because it gives you a little extra survivabilty from the endurance buff. At lower gear levels, though, a flat 6% damage boost to everything is great - although ironically it's at lower gear levels where the HP boost might be more useful.

  14. #14
    RIFT Guide Writer Gyle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    2,009

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Malar View Post
    I am going to use Gyle's spec for now so I got 51 mm. since I dont have a mm crystal yet, should I use empowered shot in my rotation. I am a big fan of using instant casts.

    Thanks,
    Malar
    If you dont have a crystal that gives you the instant ES i wouldn't use it.
    Hastati (50 warrior), Tsar (50 cleric), Tsaritsa (50 Mage)
    Guides: 51 Bladedancer, Bloodstalker, Nightblade
    DPS Rogue <Trinity>
    5/8 ID; HK Conqueror

  15. #15
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    3,660

    Default

    Another build to try if you like simple is 51mm-10rng-5rs. Gets you the hp buff from RS and extra ap.

    I've found it's just as good as NB in ST (slightly less then 51mm-15rng... not much but a little) but the aoe is better then NB.

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...tRqdAudR.V.VMR

    #show quick shot
    cast crippling shot
    cast quick shot

    That's the builder macro. Super easy which I like, plus more hps is always good.
    Last edited by Mayi; 01-06-2012 at 10:46 AM.
    I rite a gooded guide for rouges.

    NB-Sin Guide - http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...-sin-spec.html

+ Reply to Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts