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Thread: Itemisation and combat ratings (specifically, crit) in future?

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    Ascendant JimboTCB's Avatar
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    Default Itemisation and combat ratings (specifically, crit) in future?

    I'm sure a lot of people now are in the position where additional crit rating is near-as-dammit a junk stat because they're so far past the softcap it's not even funny. The devs persist in putting it on about half our DPS drops still, to the point where a lot of "warrior" gear is better because STR and DEX still give just as much AP but there's no reason to favour dex over strength as we're "supposed" to.

    I can only see this getting worse in future content, which will inevitably have a hefty dose of stat inflation and put us even further over the crit cap just based on gear. I barely have a single item of gear with crit on it where there's an AP-heavy option available, and the more baseline dex you have the worse it gets once raid buffs kick in.

    Short of completely giving up on having crit on gear and just giving us masses and masses of AP, what's the solution? Increasing the crit softcap or reducing the diminished returns would only partially solve the problem, and would probably break the hell out of all sort of other balance issues. I'm sure when the crit cap was first implemented it was probably only a technicality that they didn't expect people actually being troubled by, but it's getting to the stage now where it's a serious concern for people in "normal" gear and a major issue in deciding what items actually count as upgrades.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JimboTCB View Post
    The devs persist in putting it on about half our DPS drops still, to the point where a lot of "warrior" gear is better because STR and DEX still give just as much AP but there's no reason to favour dex over strength as we're "supposed" to.
    No.

    If two necklaces had:

    30 str, 20 dex, 20 AP

    and

    20 str, 30 dex, 20 ap


    You will always take the dex based one.


    Always.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koe View Post
    No.

    If two necklaces had:

    30 str, 20 dex, 20 AP

    and

    20 str, 30 dex, 20 ap


    You will always take the dex based one.


    Always.
    That's not really what he meant. A more accurate choice would be
    30 str, 20 dex, 20 AP
    vs
    20 str, 30 dex, 40 crit

    The AP neck would be a lot better than the dex neck. It would be better even if the supposed rogue neck would have 80 crit.

    We can even take actual in game items to compare.
    Gorget of Lies: 38 str, 25 dex, 9 AP
    Amulet of Recrimination: 23 str, 38 dex, 21 crit
    Both drop from Estrode and gorget is better for rogues than amulet because crit is so worthless.

    I'm hoping 1.7 will bring some kind of crit mechanic revamp.This is a problem that can not be fixed with itemization anymore.

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    Koe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gery View Post
    That's not really what he meant. A more accurate choice would be
    30 str, 20 dex, 20 AP
    vs
    20 str, 30 dex, 40 crit

    The AP neck would be a lot better than the dex neck. It would be better even if the supposed rogue neck would have 80 crit.

    We can even take actual in game items to compare.
    Gorget of Lies: 38 str, 25 dex, 9 AP
    Amulet of Recrimination: 23 str, 38 dex, 21 crit
    Both drop from Estrode and gorget is better for rogues than amulet because crit is so worthless.

    I'm hoping 1.7 will bring some kind of crit mechanic revamp.This is a problem that can not be fixed with itemization anymore.
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    Yes, one drop from the hardest boss in the game completely makes up for the fact that rogue itemisation is messed up.

    Crit is near-as-dammit a junk stat now, yet they persist on putting it on gear at the expense of AP, and stat inflation in future content tiers is only going to make it worse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JimboTCB View Post
    Yes, one drop from the hardest boss in the game completely makes up for the fact that rogue itemisation is messed up.

    Crit is near-as-dammit a junk stat now, yet they persist on putting it on gear at the expense of AP, and stat inflation in future content tiers is only going to make it worse.
    So itemization needs to be based around the first few bosses that most people will be able to clear easily?
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    And your point is? It's not news that dex based +AP items are best for rogues. Even then that medallion gives only 1 AP more than the gorget so it's a very minimal upgrade. Meanwhile the dex based +crit amulet is way behind both of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gery View Post
    Meanwhile the dex based +crit amulet is way behind both of them.
    and..?

    The STR based crit necklace is even further behind.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koe View Post
    and..?

    The STR based crit necklace is even further behind.
    Actually that one gives 0.5 AP more than the dex based crit amulet while dex based crit amulet gives 17 crit more. So it's just about even. Which is the whole point of this thread that +crit is so useless that it can barely even be counted as a bonus. Maybe you are happy that half of our items have useless stats but the rest of us aren't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gery View Post
    Maybe you are happy that half of our items have useless stats but the rest of us aren't.
    They aren't useless to Warriors, and they aren't "our" items.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gery View Post
    Actually that one gives 0.5 AP more than the dex based crit amulet while dex based crit amulet gives 17 crit more. So it's just about even. Which is the whole point of this thread that +crit is so useless that it can barely even be counted as a bonus. Maybe you are happy that half of our items have useless stats but the rest of us aren't.
    iirc it's 26 crit per 1% before the cap.

    So 17 crit after the cap is .14% crit, which imo is far superior than .5 AP.


    Even if you divide 17 crit by 5, which would give 3.4, that is far superior to the supposed values of 1:1.5 AP:crit(pre-soft cap).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koe View Post
    iirc it's 26 crit per 1% before the cap.

    So 17 crit after the cap is .14% crit, which imo is far superior than .5 AP.


    Even if you divide 17 crit by 5, which would give 3.4, that is far superior to the supposed values of 1:1.5 AP:crit(pre-soft cap).
    1:1.5? I guess you are still playing saboteur then. You really should look into some of the newer builds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gery View Post
    1:1.5? I guess you are still playing saboteur then. You really should look into some of the newer builds.
    Considering for every build crit is superior until you hit the crit cap, yeah. I'd still use the old values. It's not like we were getting into the technicalities like Warrior or Mage, we were too busy QQing.


    It's just we don't have the choice anymore, not to mention that necklace surpasses that value by quite a bit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koe View Post
    Considering for every build crit is superior until you hit the crit cap, yeah. I'd still use the old values. It's not like we were getting into the technicalities like Warrior or Mage, we were too busy QQing.


    It's just we don't have the choice anymore, not to mention that necklace surpasses that value by quite a bit.
    IIRC: This thread is about what we're going to do in the future when we're pushed even further over the soft cap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fudily View Post
    IIRC: This thread is about what we're going to do in the future when we're pushed even further over the soft cap.
    Stack AP.


    Trion created the problem, and unless they raise the caps(which is stupid), they have dug themselves a hole.



    What do they do?

    -Change the scaling on crit to be linear instead of static? People won't stand for that.

    -Add in a debuff for further encounters to specifically decrease crit? That is beyond silly. Feasible, but stupid. Would invalidate the gear in other areas of the game, not to mention bosses won't be able to have much longer enrage timers due to itemizing for a stat we already had. They would literally have to re-itemize crit, and then double-triple AP on items if they wanted to continue scaling encounters.

    -Raise the crit cap? Well, this is how to make people rage. Would make people re-itemize to again go after crit, and would screw balancing again.



    They have really backed themselves into a corner, and the changes they need to make will not please everyone. Unlike other scenarios, those groups of "everyone" is fairly large.

    There is no set answer. Just a lot of angry people.
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