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Thread: MM/RNG needs some love also

  1. #31
    Koe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durango View Post
    You can be right when it gets nerfed. So far lots of hotfixes/patches, no nerfs. Odds of incoming mage ST nerf: low.
    It's either they nerf mages, or ID is going to be seriously ****ed.
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  2. #32
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    TRION has kept rogues sub-par from the start of the game. Its always taken a strange mix of souls to get any real dps from the class.

    They did fix MM's in 1.5 and in 3 weeks nerfed them hard. They even made up a lie to explain it, saying they found a bug that increased MM's dps when 2 or more MM's were dpsing the same mob. It wasnt true. They decreased all MMs dps at that point, ruind Vam Muniitions and lowered aoe damage as well. Mages and Warriors once again are ruleing dps charts in PvP and PvE cleric kill rogues super easy unless poorly speced.

    No whatever so called fix TRION is claiming is just another lie!

    Oh and TRION understand, I dont want you telling me if I want equal dps of other classes I have to be melee. I like the range style and would like to see you fix the MM again.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bogus View Post
    TRION has kept rogues sub-par from the start of the game. Its always taken a strange mix of souls to get any real dps from the class.

    They did fix MM's in 1.5 and in 3 weeks nerfed them hard. They even made up a lie to explain it, saying they found a bug that increased MM's dps when 2 or more MM's were dpsing the same mob. It wasnt true. They decreased all MMs dps at that point, ruind Vam Muniitions and lowered aoe damage as well. Mages and Warriors once again are ruleing dps charts in PvP and PvE cleric kill rogues super easy unless poorly speced.

    No whatever so called fix TRION is claiming is just another lie!

    Oh and TRION understand, I dont want you telling me if I want equal dps of other classes I have to be melee. I like the range style and would like to see you fix the MM again.
    What the ... is this... so it's all a big conspiracy theory?!?!
    Rogues have always been fine in PvP btw...

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vitto View Post
    What the ... is this... so it's all a big conspiracy theory?!?!
    Rogues have always been fine in PvP btw...
    Not to mention the part were everyone seems to forget that rogues have many more options for mitigating damage then mages do.

    Why in the world would trion give one class the ability to do top dps as well as shrug off damage. Mages don't dodge, they don't parry, they don't have worthwhile armour ratings, their shields aren't as good, nor do they have as many options for boosting HP.

    The more dex I get the more my AP, crit, and dodge go up. The more SP my mage gets the more his dps and cirt goes up. I don't get passive damage mitigation the more spell power i get, while my rogues does. People can scoff all they want at leather, but my mage doesn't have 15% damage mitigation on physical damage, and my rogue does.

    The more damage you can mitigate the less damage you should deal. Warriors and clerics mitigate the most damage, then rogues, and mages are the bottom of the chart.

    The only really imbalanced part of PvP is the stupid valor stat, and gear itemization. Classes in general are actually not that bad, each one having it's own strenths and weaknesses. Even rangers aren't that bad in PvP as long as you keep your pet in the fight.

    So many people seem so hell bent on being the best at dealing damage, and seem to think that seeing there name at the top of a damage list is some form of competition that they're completely ignore all the other aspects of thier class.

    If DPS was equal across the board, then warriors would rule, and they already have a huge advantage in PvP with valor and amour.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fariic View Post
    Not to mention the part were everyone seems to forget that rogues have many more options for mitigating damage then mages do.

    Why in the world would trion give one class the ability to do top dps as well as shrug off damage. Mages don't dodge, they don't parry, they don't have worthwhile armour ratings, their shields aren't as good, nor do they have as many options for boosting HP.

    The more dex I get the more my AP, crit, and dodge go up. The more SP my mage gets the more his dps and cirt goes up. I don't get passive damage mitigation the more spell power i get, while my rogues does. People can scoff all they want at leather, but my mage doesn't have 15% damage mitigation on physical damage, and my rogue does.

    The more damage you can mitigate the less damage you should deal. Warriors and clerics mitigate the most damage, then rogues, and mages are the bottom of the chart.

    The only really imbalanced part of PvP is the stupid valor stat, and gear itemization. Classes in general are actually not that bad, each one having it's own strenths and weaknesses. Even rangers aren't that bad in PvP as long as you keep your pet in the fight.

    So many people seem so hell bent on being the best at dealing damage, and seem to think that seeing there name at the top of a damage list is some form of competition that they're completely ignore all the other aspects of thier class.

    If DPS was equal across the board, then warriors would rule, and they already have a huge advantage in PvP with valor and amour.
    All that scary physical damage flying around left and right in raids surely justifies this highly intellectual argument!

    (Gear)

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adnoz View Post
    All that scary physical damage flying around left and right in raids surely justifies this highly intellectual argument!
    You don't balance based on encounters in just a small percentage of the games content that the magority of the playerbase will not do!

    You ADJUST THE ECOUNTERS BASED ON THE CLASS BUILDS, not the other way around! There is way more to the game that has to be considerd then just raiding.

    Don't try to downplay physical damage mitigation, without it tanks wouldn't be able to tank.
    If physical damage was a non factor, why do warrior were heavier armour that is only good for mitigating physcial damage? Why does my rogue have a multiple skills to increase my armour value for tanking, and not a single one to help mitigate any other damage?

    And then mages don't get nearly as many options for bumping HP, armour, endurance, dodge, parry, or deflect as rogues do.

    Like I've pointed out in some other posts.
    Here's someone who is willing to completely ignore every other aspect of the game to try and justify his opinion.

    Rogues have more survivablity then mages, we should not do as much damage.
    Coinsidentaly, my highest damage rogue builds are also my lowest HP and armour value builds. No mage can avoid all of my damage unless they have a sheild up, which I tend to be able to remove in one or two hits, they don't get a sheild that absords 30% of all damage up to 20k like my RS does. They get like 50% of sub 700 damage sheilds. Rogues don't dodge partial damage, we dodge all of it, and mages don't dodge 15-20% of thier damage..

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fariic View Post
    You don't balance based on encounters in just a small percentage of the games content that the magority of the playerbase will not do!

    You ADJUST THE ECOUNTERS BASED ON THE CLASS BUILDS, not the other way around! There is way more to the game that has to be considerd then just raiding.

    Don't try to downplay physical damage mitigation, without it tanks wouldn't be able to tank.
    If physical damage was a non factor, why do warrior were heavier armour that is only good for mitigating physcial damage? Why does my rogue have a multiple skills to increase my armour value for tanking, and not a single one to help mitigate any other damage?

    And then mages don't get nearly as many options for bumping HP, armour, endurance, dodge, parry, or deflect as rogues do.

    Like I've pointed out in some other posts.
    Here's someone who is willing to completely ignore every other aspect of the game to try and justify his opinion.

    Rogues have more survivablity then mages, we should not do as much damage.
    Coinsidentaly, my highest damage rogue builds are also my lowest HP and armour value builds. No mage can avoid all of my damage unless they have a sheild up, which I tend to be able to remove in one or two hits, they don't get a sheild that absords 30% of all damage up to 20k like my RS does. They get like 50% of sub 700 damage sheilds. Rogues don't dodge partial damage, we dodge all of it, and mages don't dodge 15-20% of thier damage..
    Could you name these bosses where raid damage is physical because I can't think of even one in any raid instance? Armor on tank is a completely different thing since they are tanking. DPS are not tanking and therefore do not get by the physical attacks. But based on your post you are totally clueless about the game anyway, maybe you should learn it a bit and maybe raid before posting about raid dps builds.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gery View Post
    Could you name these bosses where raid damage is physical because I can't think of even one in any raid instance? Armor on tank is a completely different thing since they are tanking. DPS are not tanking and therefore do not get by the physical attacks. But based on your post you are totally clueless about the game anyway, maybe you should learn it a bit and maybe raid before posting about raid dps builds.
    So a tank, who's in melee range, needs the armour so they can tank.

    So what does a dps warrior, rogue, or cleric need it for?

    Why is that you and the other guy only latched on to armour value, and ignored all the other ways that rogues can mitigate damage? Is it because it's easier to say that there isn't a lot of physical damage in a raid?

    If the tank needs the armour to mitigate damage, then what is everyone else using?
    But, I thought there wasn't any physical damage in a raid; so what does a tank need it for, cause it only mitigates physical damage. If their isn't any physical damage in raids, then why even have armour values?

    If every soul did the same amount of dps then 99.% of the game would be unbalanced towards any soul that can mititage more damage. After they gave every single person the same dps, they'd have to give every single person the same amount of ability to mitigate damage.

    I find it very interesting that some of you are completely ignoring damage mitigation, and trying to downplay it like it doesn't have any impact on the game.

    You guys will pull parse after parse, and figure out all the maths, but total ingore how the rest of the class plays to try and make it look like you're on to something. You're not.

    Just like any other game that is class and gear baed, the classes that can mititage the most damage will deal the least amount of damage, while the classes that mitigate the least will deal the most. THAT'S HOW BALANCE IS ACHIEVED. You can not base it off your one encounter because it's a straight dps fight and you can completely ignore every function of your class excpet the number that pops up on the meter.

    Why do I outdamage most every mage in WF's as an MM/ RNG/ NB build?

    I really hate to break it to some of you. Just because you raid doesn't mean you know what's best to balance the game, or how it should be balanced. The only thing you guys seem to know, or rather think, is that raiding is all about who does the most damage, and that you have to compete against 19 other people to be the best.

    It doesn't matter who had the most damage on any given encounter in a raid, as long as its beatable.
    Any one that says they're being excluded from raids becaue they're a rogue is a liar.

    And there is more to this game then your gd sicaron parses. Stop being so narrowminded and envious and actually look at how your class works. Or go into a WF and tell that mage you just dropped before they could barely dent you that you don't do enough damage.

    Even better.
    Start a petition asking Trion to remove 30-40% of our HP, 50% of our armour, cap our dodge at 3%, parry at 1%, and then replace every skill that boosts HP, End, armour rating, speed enhancements, white damage, and weapon buffs, for the same amount of damage as mages.

    Not one of you would be willing to do that, and if you were, go play a mage.

  9. #39
    Ascendant Adnoz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fariic View Post
    So a tank, who's in melee range, needs the armour so they can tank.

    So what does a dps warrior, rogue, or cleric need it for?

    Why is that you and the other guy only latched on to armour value, and ignored all the other ways that rogues can mitigate damage? Is it because it's easier to say that there isn't a lot of physical damage in a raid?

    If the tank needs the armour to mitigate damage, then what is everyone else using?
    But, I thought there wasn't any physical damage in a raid; so what does a tank need it for, cause it only mitigates physical damage. If their isn't any physical damage in raids, then why even have armour values?

    If every soul did the same amount of dps then 99.% of the game would be unbalanced towards any soul that can mititage more damage. After they gave every single person the same dps, they'd have to give every single person the same amount of ability to mitigate damage.

    I find it very interesting that some of you are completely ignoring damage mitigation, and trying to downplay it like it doesn't have any impact on the game.

    You guys will pull parse after parse, and figure out all the maths, but total ingore how the rest of the class plays to try and make it look like you're on to something. You're not.

    Just like any other game that is class and gear baed, the classes that can mititage the most damage will deal the least amount of damage, while the classes that mitigate the least will deal the most. THAT'S HOW BALANCE IS ACHIEVED. You can not base it off your one encounter because it's a straight dps fight and you can completely ignore every function of your class excpet the number that pops up on the meter.

    Why do I outdamage most every mage in WF's as an MM/ RNG/ NB build?

    I really hate to break it to some of you. Just because you raid doesn't mean you know what's best to balance the game, or how it should be balanced. The only thing you guys seem to know, or rather think, is that raiding is all about who does the most damage, and that you have to compete against 19 other people to be the best.

    It doesn't matter who had the most damage on any given encounter in a raid, as long as its beatable.
    Any one that says they're being excluded from raids becaue they're a rogue is a liar.

    And there is more to this game then your gd sicaron parses. Stop being so narrowminded and envious and actually look at how your class works. Or go into a WF and tell that mage you just dropped before they could barely dent you that you don't do enough damage.

    Even better.
    Start a petition asking Trion to remove 30-40% of our HP, 50% of our armour, cap our dodge at 3%, parry at 1%, and then replace every skill that boosts HP, End, armour rating, speed enhancements, white damage, and weapon buffs, for the same amount of damage as mages.

    Not one of you would be willing to do that, and if you were, go play a mage.
    Most ******ed post of all time.

    (Gear)

  10. #40
    Plane Touched Fariic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adnoz View Post
    Most ******ed post of all time.
    I know.

    Logic is a tough thing to argue against.

    But then your sig explains all.
    Last edited by Fariic; 01-02-2012 at 05:34 PM.

  11. #41
    Rift Disciple Scrumdiddly's Avatar
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    Not sure if Honorable Mention for Great Trolling, or just clueless

  12. #42
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    My guess is that it's the start of the 1.7 "We're top DPS don't buff anyone else for the love of all that's holy" Mage Freakout, only a bit more eloquent than you normally get when justifying class imbalances.
    Telarans on class balance: Rock is overpowered. Paper is fine. - Scissors

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koe View Post
    Yeah, and it's known that Rogue AoE needs a huge boost.
    So many posts, yet such a joke.

    Yea, if it's known that rogue AoE needs a boost, it's not competitive. You know, unless we can AoE in our "competitive" or top dps spec as well. Until that time, which will never come, our ST should be higher than warriors by a little bit, because we cannot AoE in that spec which is currently the only melee competitive spec.

    You contradict yourself so much.

  14. #44
    RIFT Guide Writer Zyzyx's Avatar
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    Daglar said they won't revert iqs nerf. I wonder if that was a blanket statement for the mm synergy cryatal nerf too. They made me start to like the mm soul and like the sab/hoko/nb specs of old I'm starting to have to leave it behind.
    Last edited by Zyzyx; 01-03-2012 at 01:21 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

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