+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 15 1 2 3 4 5 11 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 214
Like Tree44Likes

  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: planar attunement bug

  1. #1
    RIFT Guide Writer Zyzyx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    5,040

    Default planar attunement bug

    Here's some quotes from nnnxia:

    Quote Originally Posted by Nnnxia View Post
    Code:
    2 Tiers				
    								
    Class	Weapon	DPSC	DPS	SP/AP	PAC	PAC/DPSC	Notes
    Caster	NA	14.4	0	144	49750	3454	
    Warrior	Polearm	13.04	12.8	16	36930	2832	T1 AP Only
    Warrior	Polearm	13.28	12.8	32	40280	3033	T2 AP 
    Rogue	Gun	6.4	6.4	0	18700	2921	
    Rogue	Sword	6.4	6.4	0	18325	2863	
    
    Caster = Mage/Clerics
    DPSC = DPS Ceiling, DPS + SP/AP, Warriors have 0.15 Multiplier for AP. Casters assumed SP/10
    PAC = Total PA Cost to acquire
    PAC/DPSC = Average PA needed to acquire 1 DPS
    Assumptions:

    Blue Hexes (Stat boosts) are considered constant throughout the classes and will be ignored.

    Findings:

    Once rogues hit the 18.7k or 18.3k PA Mark they have reached the maximum DPS ceiling for their particular class (ranged or melee), whilst Casters and Warriors who go beyond that still receive major benefits to their class which can reach up to more than double the DPS contribution of Rogues PA wise.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nnnxia View Post
    Mage/Cleric Benefits per Tier

    6 x 4 Totem 1 SP
    6 x 4 Sword 1 SP Dagger 1 SP Hammer 2 SP
    6 x 4 Staff 2 SP
    6 x 4 Ranged Weapon Wand 1 SP

    Total Benefit - 24 SP + 2 x 24 SP = 72 SP
    2 Tier Benefit = 144 SP
    3 Tier Benefit = 216 SP

    Polearm Warrior Benefits per Tier

    4 x 4 1h Axe 0.2 Dps
    4 x 4 1h Sword 0.2 Dps
    4 x 4 1h Mace 0.2 Dps
    4 x 4 2h Polearm 0.2 Dps
    4 x 4 2h Mastery 0.2 Dps
    4 x 4 Ranged Weapon 1 AP

    Total Benefit - 16 AP + 3.2 DPS + 3.2 DPS (Polearm)
    2 Tier Benefit = 32 AP + 12.8 DPS
    3 Tier Benefit = 48 AP + 19.2 DPS

    Rogue Benefits per Tier

    4 x 4 1h Axe 0.2 Dps
    4 x 4 1h Sword 0.2 Dps
    4 x 4 1h Dagger 0.2 Dps
    4 x 4 1h Mace 0.2 Dps
    4 x 4 Bow 0.2 Dps
    4 x 4 Gun 0.2 Dps

    Total Benefit If Ranged - 3.2 DPS
    Total Benefit If Melee - 3.2 DPS
    2 Tier Benefit, Melee - 6.4 DPS
    2 Tier Benefit, Ranged - 6.4 DPS
    3 Tier Benefit, Melee - 9.6 DPS
    3 Tier Benefit, Ranged - 9.6 DPS

    Other than lack of scaling relative to other classes, the Rogue tree suffers from redundancy, has lack of ranged weapon benefits or an underlying benefit hex and has the highest cost for benefit vs other classes, eg. you have to invest more for less.

    Totally imbalanced and needs fixing asap.

    Solutions to this problem will have to double the effectiveness of weapon hexes rogues receive from PA's as well as adding static ap from wearing weapons like the other 3 callings receive. I understand why this was allowed to happen as you can't just give rogues ap from ranged weapons because that would mean ranger/mm/sab/bard would receive less of a bonus from PA's. It isn't a simple issue and will require a creative solution.

    Something like half the ap bonus other callings receive from range weapon put on both our main hand and ranged weapon hexes. Would need to make sure this does not contribute from off hand or you'd force rogues to go for more PA hexes than the other callings any more than you will already have to do. I suggest merging the bow/gun hexes for a "ranged weapon" hex as well. This would give us the double ranged weapon hex dipping equivalent to warriors. If you could let the off hand weapon hex contribute to main hand that would solve it for melee too.
    Last edited by Zyzyx; 12-29-2011 at 03:39 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

  2. #2
    Rift Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    636

    Default

    This is a thread that Allion or another dev should reply to.

    I hope that it is addressed sooner rather than never.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyle View Post
    A rogue can top the parse on every boss in HK if they use the right spec, and it's been that way for months.

  3. #3
    Koe
    Koe is offline
    Ascendant Koe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    3,198

    Default

    Rogue ST is fine, Zyzyx. Unbalanced PA or not.


    Compared to Warriors, that is.


    Still waiting on those mage nerfs.
    Free music! It's legal!
    DISCLAIMER: Some songs may have been taken down.

  4. #4
    Rift Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    636

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Koe View Post
    Rogue ST is fine, Zyzyx. Unbalanced PA or not.


    Compared to Warriors, that is.


    Still waiting on those mage nerfs.
    I still have no idea how you can state that when I have to use my mousewheel on every HK parse to find a yellow name. Even then, there are so few in the top 50.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyle View Post
    A rogue can top the parse on every boss in HK if they use the right spec, and it's been that way for months.

  5. #5
    Ascendant Zaros's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    7,411

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Petgroup View Post
    I still have no idea how you can state that when I have to use my mousewheel on every HK parse to find a yellow name. Even then, there are so few in the top 50.
    His philosophy is that Rogues aren't underpowered, it's just that Mages are overpowered. Which seems legit, I guess. I don't agree, but there's two ways of looking at the situation.
    ~Quiescent

  6. #6
    Champion
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    521

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Petgroup View Post
    I still have no idea how you can state that when I have to use my mousewheel on every HK parse to find a yellow name. Even then, there are so few in the top 50.
    Dont look at Sicaron parses IMO, too much RNG. Look at Murdantix, I still think we are off by about 50-100ish dps, but the gap is a lot closer then most think. Just a lot of folks can not play the bloodstalker very well, or dont have the AP to push the numbers.

    Edit: ^^ Talking about Melee DPS :P
    Last edited by Kokie; 12-29-2011 at 03:55 PM.

  7. #7
    Rift Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    636

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaros View Post
    His philosophy is that Rogues aren't underpowered, it's just that Mages are overpowered. Which seems legit, I guess. I don't agree, but there's two ways of looking at the situation.
    Take away the purple names and we are still left with a giant gaping hole in parses. I'm aware that our AOE is the worst in the game but still not a single Rogue has or will beat a Warrior parse in HK. That's a fact that top players have yet to disprove.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kokie View Post
    Dont look at Sicaron parses IMO, too much RNG. Look at Murdantix, I still think we are off by about 50-100ish dps, but the gap is a lot closer then most think. Just a lot of folks can not play the bloodstalker very well, or dont have the AP to push the numbers.

    Edit: ^^ Talking about Melee DPS :P
    Sicaron is the glaring flashlight on how well Wars scale compared to Rogues. Even with "inflated" numbers, it's valid. Just picture if Sicaron gave a 50000% buff to damage, Rogues would be laughed off the server.
    Last edited by Petgroup; 12-29-2011 at 04:02 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyle View Post
    A rogue can top the parse on every boss in HK if they use the right spec, and it's been that way for months.

  8. #8
    Ascendant Adnoz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,882

    Default

    I think adding [bug] to the title for attention is not a good idea

    (Gear)

  9. #9
    Ascendant
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    1,842

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Koe View Post
    Rogue ST is fine, Zyzyx. Unbalanced PA or not.


    Compared to Warriors, that is.


    Still waiting on those mage nerfs.
    Your post still makes no sense especially when relating to the main point of the post: the PA imbalance. Try to focus. You even said it was imbalanced.

    It needs to be fixed/addressed. Deal with the other imbalances/differences in another thread.

  10. #10
    Ascendant Adnoz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,882

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Citnes View Post
    QQQQQQQQQQ, thats all i hear in this rogue forum
    cit not breaking 3300 murdantix is all I hear when I look for him on riftlogs :<
    Last edited by Adnoz; 12-29-2011 at 04:06 PM.

    (Gear)

  11. #11
    Ascendant
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    1,842

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Citnes View Post
    QQQQQQQQQQ, thats all i hear in this rogue forum
    Care to refute the OP in regards to PA with hard math?

    He's posted evidence and it's obvious. Care to post something constructive?

  12. #12
    RIFT Guide Writer Zyzyx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    5,040

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adnoz View Post
    I think adding [bug] to the title for attention is not a good idea
    Well maybe bug isn't the right word for it ,but they can't have intended for rogues to receive less than half the bonuses of other classes from similar amount of PA levels.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

  13. #13
    Ascendant
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    1,842

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adnoz View Post
    I think adding [bug] to the title for attention is not a good idea
    I agree. I understand the intention and reasoning after today, but the wording is misleading and that's bad.

    But it definitely needs a decent look at based on how big of a difference the system currently has, let alone how much higher it will aggregate with tier 3 PA.

  14. #14
    Koe
    Koe is offline
    Ascendant Koe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    3,198

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DTM300 View Post
    Your post still makes no sense especially when relating to the main point of the post: the PA imbalance. Try to focus. You even said it was imbalanced.

    It needs to be fixed/addressed. Deal with the other imbalances/differences in another thread.
    If PAs get changed, and when EW gets fixed, Rogues will be beating Warriors but still below mages I think.


    We do not need to be above warriors. With the EW fix, we will be more competitive than we are now(hint, we're within 3-5% of Warrior ST).


    Mages are overpowered and if they balance ID around their DPS we are all ****ed. They need to balance it around current melee rogue/warrior DPS, and nerf mages to 2-3% below that.
    Free music! It's legal!
    DISCLAIMER: Some songs may have been taken down.

  15. #15
    Plane Touched Citnes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    280

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adnoz View Post
    cit not breaking 3300 murdantix is all I hear when I look for him on riftlogs :<
    i rly care sooo hard and your guild always trying to get our members, dont know why they want to switch to such a "pro" guild :E
    Last edited by Citnes; 12-29-2011 at 04:22 PM.
    BlackOut - Shard: Brutwacht 10/10 HK

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 15 1 2 3 4 5 11 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts