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Thread: Best Ranged Specs

  1. #16
    Rift Disciple Warhaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pink Freud View Post
    15 Ranger actually gets you +23% damage, don't forget Killing Focus.
    Quite right.
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  2. #17
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gery View Post
    To me it sounds like you are just not playing it right. Keeping up shadow fire even with cast time is not that difficult and head shot does the exact same damage as hasted shot so it doesn't matter when it's used in the time frame when strafe is available but head shot buff has not dropped yet. All the top parses with MM also disagree with you.
    It's not a matter of not playing it right... spec is easy, it's just annoying because you have to keep track of buffs. Plus, unless you can use shadowfire exactly when you want like on the dummy, in game if you can't apply it exactly when you want then it's a dps loss.

    Don't use it then - I'm not trying to start an argument about what's the best spec. I'm looking for others who's bothered testing more specs to see what's more dps.
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  3. #18
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tobygo View Post
    Just tried the NB variant and the RS variant. Both come pretty close to the 51m 15 rng.
    However I can't test it properly without taking out the shadowfire sourcestone and replacing it with something else ( Any ideas) ?
    Test it with your source machine you use with melee builds. That's what lead me to first try non-shadow fire builds.
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  4. #19
    Rift Disciple Warhaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayi View Post
    It's not a matter of not playing it right... spec is easy, it's just annoying because you have to keep track of buffs. Plus, unless you can use shadowfire exactly when you want like on the dummy, in game if you can't apply it exactly when you want then it's a dps loss.
    This makes sense.

    How many times on raid scripts do we have to get all buffs back up before being 100% functional again? there would be a surprising number i think.
    Anything where jousts, dps stoppages, target switches, anything that breaks rotation for any reason, and frequency and combination of those are all things that can make "downtime" of buffs significant, and resulting reapplication problematic.
    Think Rune king (stop for runic), buffs fall.
    Think Sicaron, move for contract (if you get an unlucky run this can become more significant)
    Think Grug ground phases... much hate for ground phases
    Think rapid target swaps for Soul renderer (i know im never perma on named, and it wouldnt be too uncommon for buffs to fall during beam phase).

    I could go on with encounters, but the point is made.

    Whats on offer here is highest output capability, innately (or with minimal resistance).

    That being the case, i can see value in NB or assassin builds.
    Id be interested in seeing actual encounter data.

  5. #20
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warhaz View Post
    This makes sense.

    How many times on raid scripts do we have to get all buffs back up before being 100% functional again? there would be a surprising number i think.
    Anything where jousts, dps stoppages, target switches, anything that breaks rotation for any reason, and frequency and combination of those are all things that can make "downtime" of buffs significant, and resulting reapplication problematic.
    Think Rune king (stop for runic), buffs fall.
    Think Sicaron, move for contract (if you get an unlucky run this can become more significant)
    Think Grug ground phases... much hate for ground phases
    Think rapid target swaps for Soul renderer (i know im never perma on named, and it wouldnt be too uncommon for buffs to fall during beam phase).

    I could go on with encounters, but the point is made.

    Whats on offer here is highest output capability, innately (or with minimal resistance).

    That being the case, i can see value in NB or assassin builds.
    Id be interested in seeing actual encounter data.
    Yea, that's why ranger on Akylios is more dps (rng-assn-rs). I use the mini-window and see everyone's dps as it's being pumped out. Ranger has 0 restrictions or negatives for target switches. On pull, ranger's higher in dps until about the time MM gets 10 stacks of silver tipped. Then MM pulls ahead (it's higher ST dps), but with trick shot spam then ranger goes ahead.... plus it spreads lethal in aoe and provides an armor debuff for stingers. They generally don't stay up too long so less ramp up plus no loss in dps for moving helps a ton.

    MM aoe is OKish with 51mm-10rng-5rs, one button spam for ok dps. But for raid buffs/debuffs ranger wins, plus ranger is higher dps for up to 4 targets, best at 2-3 (like last phase Aky). MM wins out at 5+. Still playing around with how to best ranger aoe though.... it's so energy starved, even with tablet, that it might be best to mix in rain of arrows since it's easy on the energy.

    No shadow fire or headshot means I'm using the same rotation no matter what... I just have to watch reload and strafe for when they come off CD.
    Last edited by Mayi; 12-13-2011 at 07:55 PM.
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  6. #21
    RIFT Guide Writer Gyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warhaz View Post

    Id be interested in seeing actual encounter data.
    I will be running the 13 NB variant in HK tomorrow, but i probably wont be using it on any of the good parse bosses since i run Bloodstalker on those. I might run it on Matron and just ST the whole time to see how it does.
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  7. #22
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    Ok let me set it up for you I am in a casual raid guild due to my real time restrictions (family etc) so I am still mainly in Green Scale almost have my 4th piece of t1 raid gear (i have the nimble crafted stuff to go with it). I run some ROS and had my first taste of HK (second boss last week)

    In my current build I have 867 crit 633 ap with no buffs up I been testing the builds I use

    51mm 15rng (have greater essence) 51mm 10nb 5rs and I just tried 51mm assin (no I do not have another melee sm yet still have to build it along with my tank one I am working on) Even using that I am starting to pull within about 50dps on the dummy of the builds. What i noticed is the 51mm 15sin compared to the ranger ramped up quicker and had the sustained damage.

    With my 51mm 15 rng i noticed it started of slower bet as i hit my big crits on deadeye I would jump a little and over time it was pulling ahead about 50-70 dps.

    What may make me go sin or the nb rs is less cast times in fights when you have to move no telling how many times in certain bosses start to cast sf have to move lose sf to have to recast it losing dps. So if I can get close to the dps then it may be worth just to avoid the aggravation of SF. Now I just have to decided which i like better Sin or the 10NB 5 rs and it will also make better pvp option

  8. #23
    RIFT Guide Writer Gyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hejtmane View Post
    Ok let me set it up for you I am in a casual raid guild due to my real time restrictions (family etc) so I am still mainly in Green Scale almost have my 4th piece of t1 raid gear (i have the nimble crafted stuff to go with it). I run some ROS and had my first taste of HK (second boss last week)

    In my current build I have 867 crit 633 ap with no buffs up I been testing the builds I use

    51mm 15rng (have greater essence) 51mm 10nb 5rs and I just tried 51mm assin (no I do not have another melee sm yet still have to build it along with my tank one I am working on) Even using that I am starting to pull within about 50dps on the dummy of the builds. What i noticed is the 51mm 15sin compared to the ranger ramped up quicker and had the sustained damage.

    With my 51mm 15 rng i noticed it started of slower bet as i hit my big crits on deadeye I would jump a little and over time it was pulling ahead about 50-70 dps.

    What may make me go sin or the nb rs is less cast times in fights when you have to move no telling how many times in certain bosses start to cast sf have to move lose sf to have to recast it losing dps. So if I can get close to the dps then it may be worth just to avoid the aggravation of SF. Now I just have to decided which i like better Sin or the 10NB 5 rs and it will also make better pvp option
    At lower gear levels i suspect that 15 RNG would be the best spec, since the +100 AP from the greater would be a bigger buff. The nice thing about the NB/RS build is that you get an AP contribution from the MM buffs, as well as the RS talents that pick up most of that +100 AP you lose by not having the Shadowfire greater. But, those additions will only start to make up the difference at high raid T2 gear levels. If i were in raid T1 gear i would definitely be using 15 ranger.
    Last edited by Gyle; 12-13-2011 at 08:54 PM.
    Hastati (50 warrior), Tsar (50 cleric), Tsaritsa (50 Mage)
    Guides: 51 Bladedancer, Bloodstalker, Nightblade
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  9. #24
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hejtmane View Post
    Ok let me set it up for you I am in a casual raid guild due to my real time restrictions (family etc) so I am still mainly in Green Scale almost have my 4th piece of t1 raid gear (i have the nimble crafted stuff to go with it). I run some ROS and had my first taste of HK (second boss last week)

    In my current build I have 867 crit 633 ap with no buffs up I been testing the builds I use

    51mm 15rng (have greater essence) 51mm 10nb 5rs and I just tried 51mm assin (no I do not have another melee sm yet still have to build it along with my tank one I am working on) Even using that I am starting to pull within about 50dps on the dummy of the builds. What i noticed is the 51mm 15sin compared to the ranger ramped up quicker and had the sustained damage.

    With my 51mm 15 rng i noticed it started of slower bet as i hit my big crits on deadeye I would jump a little and over time it was pulling ahead about 50-70 dps.

    What may make me go sin or the nb rs is less cast times in fights when you have to move no telling how many times in certain bosses start to cast sf have to move lose sf to have to recast it losing dps. So if I can get close to the dps then it may be worth just to avoid the aggravation of SF. Now I just have to decided which i like better Sin or the 10NB 5 rs and it will also make better pvp option


    Quote Originally Posted by Gyle View Post
    At lower gear levels i suspect that 15 RNG would be the best spec, since the +100 AP from the greater would be a bigger buff. The nice thing about the NB/RS build is that you get an AP contribution from the MM buffs, as well as the RS talents that pick up most of that +100 AP you lose by not having the Shadowfire greater. But, those additions will only start to make up the difference at high raid T2 gear levels. If i were in raid T1 gear i would definitely be using 15 ranger.
    Yea, I would agree with this. Later on when you get 4/4 HK you'll stop using deadeye shot. It's a big dps loss (maybe 100) to use it. With 600ap I don't think %ap buffs will make much of a difference.

    If you want to drop shadow fire I'd go with 51mm-13nb-2rs too. It's less reliant on having high ap then going 5rs.

    Basicly what I do rotation wise is:

    Spam to 5 - finisher
    Empowered - strafe - reload - finisher
    empowered - strafe - finisher

    Then it's just spam and finisher until strafe comes back up off cd. When reload comes off CD, make sure you've just used rapid fire. Rapid fire is the big dps increase.

    In your case without 2/4 HK or 4/4 raid T1, don't use empowered and use the same rotation as above.

    I actually macro strafe and quick reload. It works as long as you wait to hit strafe until you're past the GCD. Otherwise you'll quick reload early.
    Last edited by Mayi; 12-13-2011 at 09:48 PM.
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  10. #25
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    I did some parsing:
    51mm/15 ranger using deadeye 2050 dps
    51mm/15 ranger using hasted 1970 dps
    51mm/10 ranger, 2 rs using hasted 1860 dps
    51mm/13nb/2rs using hasted 1900 dps
    51mm/13nb/2rs using deadeye 1950 dps

    All parses selfbuffed without consumables on live server, 15 ranger builds using a sigil with ranger greater essence and builds without shadow fire using full AP sigil. Ranger builds did not use piercing shot.

    Stats with ranger greater: 990 AP, 984 crit
    Stats with AP sigil: 1019 AP, 1007 crit (in 51mm/15 ranger build with predatory instincts up, 938 base AP which is used to calculate the +% ap in RS for example)
    Weapon: double barreled problem solver

    I most definitely do not agree that deadeye shot would be a dps loss, especially since it scales so much better with AP than hasted shot. In any case the build and rotation are a matter of comfort and skill. Yo u just have to estimate how big certain dps loss you will take from build and rotation vs a dps loss you would get for messing up rotation or coping with fight mechanics/movement.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayi View Post
    It's not a matter of not playing it right... spec is easy, it's just annoying because you have to keep track of buffs. Plus, unless you can use shadowfire exactly when you want like on the dummy, in game if you can't apply it exactly when you want then it's a dps loss.

    Don't use it then - I'm not trying to start an argument about what's the best spec. I'm looking for others who's bothered testing more specs to see what's more dps.
    If you're not looking for arguments then dont start a ****ing thread titled best ranged dps specs. Accept that people will disagree with you and defend your opinions with more than "well durr in real raid situations I cant do the rotation I'm saying is easy because hitting hs every 42 seconds is too much".

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  12. #27
    Plane Walker Knightcrawler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayi View Post
    So has no one tried any other builds besides 51mm-15rng? I know there's at least one person who mentioned using nb. In my opinion 51mm-15rng is bad, it's not mobile and has a crap rotation. Comparing myself to other rogues who use it, I don't think they've ever done more dps in a ST encounter like Murd and Sic.
    You dont see more dps from others because people who want to pull the most dps play bloodstalker on these encounters.
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  13. #28
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gery View Post
    I did some parsing:
    51mm/15 ranger using deadeye 2050 dps
    51mm/15 ranger using hasted 1970 dps
    51mm/10 ranger, 2 rs using hasted 1860 dps
    51mm/13nb/2rs using hasted 1900 dps
    51mm/13nb/2rs using deadeye 1950 dps

    All parses selfbuffed without consumables on live server, 15 ranger builds using a sigil with ranger greater essence and builds without shadow fire using full AP sigil. Ranger builds did not use piercing shot.

    Stats with ranger greater: 990 AP, 984 crit
    Stats with AP sigil: 1019 AP, 1007 crit (in 51mm/15 ranger build with predatory instincts up, 938 base AP which is used to calculate the +% ap in RS for example)
    Weapon: double barreled problem solver

    I most definitely do not agree that deadeye shot would be a dps loss, especially since it scales so much better with AP than hasted shot. In any case the build and rotation are a matter of comfort and skill. Yo u just have to estimate how big certain dps loss you will take from build and rotation vs a dps loss you would get for messing up rotation or coping with fight mechanics/movement.
    It's good your testing them out, but you can't compare dummy parses self buffed. With hasted you're energy starved, and are not with deadeye. Test them with fervor and you'll get different results. You have about the same stats as me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Knightcrawler View Post
    You dont see more dps from others because people who want to pull the most dps play bloodstalker on these encounters.
    Yea, most do but I'm looking for ranged specs only.
    Last edited by Mayi; 12-14-2011 at 05:00 AM.
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  14. #29
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gery View Post
    To me it sounds like you are just not playing it right. Keeping up shadow fire even with cast time is not that difficult and head shot does the exact same damage as hasted shot so it doesn't matter when it's used in the time frame when strafe is available but head shot buff has not dropped yet. All the top parses with MM also disagree with you.
    Hum... it's not just me that's not using 51mm-15rng, just checked riftlogs.

    http://www.riftlogs.com/report/view/.../m/damage_done

    Top rogue parse isn't using shadowfire either on Sic. Do these people post? I'd like to see what they've come up with. It looks like he's using 51mm-10rng-5rs with 3/3 IQS, I tried that out and like the nb one better, but have yet to try the NB variant on Sic. Going to try it tonight.
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  15. #30
    Champion of Telara Nnnxia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayi View Post
    Hum... it's not just me that's not using 51mm-15rng, just checked riftlogs.

    http://www.riftlogs.com/report/view/.../m/damage_done

    Top rogue parse isn't using shadowfire either on Sic. Do these people post? I'd like to see what they've come up with. It looks like he's using 51mm-10rng-5rs with 3/3 IQS, I tried that out and like the nb one better, but have yet to try the NB variant on Sic. Going to try it tonight.
    Click on the name. The tooltip just shows top 9 damaging skills. Sathoris does use Shadowfire + Undertow rifle.

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