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Thread: Simple fix for Bladedancer tree. Make it viable !

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple
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    Default Simple fix for Bladedancer tree. Make it viable !

    Hello.
    Everyone knows Bladedancer soul sucks a lot.
    Behind every other spec (Rogue spec like Bloostalker , MM , Nightblade.).
    There is 2 big problem in this soul.
    First , our T4 crystal requiered 51 point in the soul to be fully effective.
    And second , the tree who is a dps centered one is fill with a lot of Tanking abilities.
    For a 51 BD , you have 18 point who provide 0 dps . Yes. 18.

    So i have some little suggestions to make this soul viable.

    First , make Reprisal (adjust cd to 8 seconds like serpent strike), Turn the tide and strike back (add a condition like cannot happen more than one every 5s) proc of Crit too.
    I mean..... bladedancer is a dps soul , not a tanking one. And you fill the tree with a lot of skill who is "Active after a dodge or parry". Seriously ?
    In raid , there is no chance to see this proc from a dps POV. Being Hit by the boss is a quick death for a rogue.

    Second one , in addition to the precedent change , up the value of Turn the tide to 20% more damage.

    Third one : Make deadly dance proc from Blade dancer finisher , not just Deadly strike. This way , we are viable in Aoe , since our Aoe finisher is a loss in dps when we are doing Aoe. A non sense for me.

    Next one , change quick reflexe to a +5% crit instead of + 5% dodge. Who wants a +5% dodge in a dps tree ?

    And for the last , Make False blade up our crit and dodge by 5% instead of just dodge. Change Improved false blade too , with a 6% more in crit and dodge instead of just dodge.

    All the comments of the rogue community are welcome.

    I hope our dev lead read this too.

  2. #2
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    Having Deadly Dance proc off all Bladedancer Finishers (instead of just Deadly Dance) just makes perfect sense. As you say it's silly that our AoE finisher is a DPSloss when AoEing over Deadly Strike because of this.

    I'd leave Quick Reflexes alone, keep in mind this is a pretty important talent for Riftstalker builds. Combat Culmination and Improved False Blade can just be dropped in the waste bin for sure though. Slapping some offensive talents in place of those two might be enough.

    Perhaps one general DPS talent in place of Combat Culmination and another specifically for boosting the (very weak) Twin Strike and Compound Attack in place of IFB would be enough.

  3. #3
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    A quick up , Make it happen !

    Otherwise an other suggestion who can put our dps on par with the other.
    Change the HK bonus . Make it affect all Rythmic abilities. This way , we can do a spec who have a proper rotation with only 3 rythmic (double coup , blade tempo , dualism) , and be less dependent of a 51 point abilities.
    With this change , we can do a 40 BD / 17 Sin / 9 (RS or MM).

  4. #4
    Telaran
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    I see what you're trying to do, and I agree than Bladedancer needs improvement, but you shouldn't remove all of its defensive abilities, especially all of the "available after a dodge or parry" abilities. That's part of the flavor of the soul; there's already enough souls with crit-procs.

    I mean, sure, the soul is classified as an "Offensive Soul". That doesn't mean that every talent needs to be geared towards DPS.

  5. #5
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    If you read my change , i just want to add crit on the condition instead of just dodge and parry.
    So for strike back , reprisal and Turn the tide , the proc happen with a crit , a dodge , or a parry.
    This way everybody is happy. Tank and dps.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kedon View Post
    Having Deadly Dance proc off all Bladedancer Finishers (instead of just Deadly Dance) just makes perfect sense. As you say it's silly that our AoE finisher is a DPSloss when AoEing over Deadly Strike because of this.

    I'd leave Quick Reflexes alone, keep in mind this is a pretty important talent for Riftstalker builds. Combat Culmination and Improved False Blade can just be dropped in the waste bin for sure though. Slapping some offensive talents in place of those two might be enough.

    Perhaps one general DPS talent in place of Combat Culmination and another specifically for boosting the (very weak) Twin Strike and Compound Attack in place of IFB would be enough.
    +1
    To me it's not a pure "dps tree" and you should add that it sucks in pve, pvp is quite fine but nobody plays it but I doubt they gave it a chance.
    It's more like the "solo" tree, so ye, it doesn't fits well for raiding.

    The only thing I really agree is the deadly dance and aoE finisher taht nerf dps.

    the rest I'd call it a 'dps increase' and not 'a utility increase'

    "A dagger in the dark is worth a thousand swords at dawn..".

  7. #7
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    Careful what you wish for, guys. Not every soul needs to be a legit raiding DPS spec. The change to contra tempo would suck for our solo PvE specs if it weren't for the buffs to RS and leeching poison working out better than old contra tempo did (getting 4 cps in GCD on occasion was sick though).

  8. #8
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    Well i have do some test on dummy.
    Fully comsummable , fully raid buff , HK 4 piece crystal for each spec.

    Bloodstalker : 3150 dps
    Nightblade : 2920 dps (probably higher versus a boss due to the execute mode : +30 % on some skills when the target is under 30% life)
    51 Bd / 10 sin / 5 Rs : 2650 dps
    51 Bd / 5rs / 10 MM (1920 ap full buff) : 2520 dps
    40 Bd / 17 sin / 4 Rs : 2580 dps.

    So we have a difference of 500 dps between our Top dps spec , and Blade dancer spec.
    If i remember right , Trion say their goal is to have each spec with the same gear level provide the same dps (5% difference is a good goal to reach).
    At the moment , this goal is not reach.
    Last edited by Atheres; 12-13-2011 at 04:36 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atheres View Post
    If i remember right , Trion say their goal is to have each spec with the same gear level provide the same dps (5% difference is a good goal to reach).
    At the moment , this goal is not reach.
    First of all, I can't remember Trion saying so. So if you could quote it, I would be thankfull.

    Quote Originally Posted by Atheres View Post
    Well i have do some test on dummy.
    Fully comsummable , fully raid buff , HK 4 piece crystal for each spec.

    Bloodstalker : 3150 dps
    Nightblade : 2920 dps (probably higher versus a boss due to the execute mode : +30 % on some skills when the target is under 30% life)
    51 Bd / 10 sin / 5 Rs : 2650 dps
    51 Bd / 5rs / 10 MM (1920 ap full buff) : 2520 dps
    40 Bd / 17 sin / 4 Rs : 2580 dps.

    So we have a difference of 500 dps between our Top dps spec , and Blade dancer spec.
    If i remember right , Trion say their goal is to have each spec with the same gear level provide the same dps (5% difference is a good goal to reach).
    At the moment , this goal is not reach.
    Did they say about full raid buff dps or self buffed? because it would be hard to provide equal dps between each specc with and without raid buff...
    Did they say it was single target or AoE? Because again, same aoe and single target dps would be hard.
    Do you have the best rotation on each specc?AoE and single target
    Etc etc...
    So I really want to see that Trion quote with author's name, cause that's quite vague.

    Anyway, the day every single specc from every single callings will have exact same ST dps, AoE dps, utility (+or - 5%), toughness, heal procs etc etc : this game will be damn boring.

    I think BD is the only 'solo oriented' dps specc, and I m fine with it. I m not saying it doesn't deserve some improvements, but I like its design.

    BTw, I can't see 51 ranger parses, 51 sin neither, what's wrong with them? Maybe 51 bd is just not a raid dps specc, just like 51ranger, 51sin etc...
    Last edited by Gaaz; 12-13-2011 at 05:27 AM.

    "A dagger in the dark is worth a thousand swords at dawn..".

  10. #10
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    The citation:

    Tuning versus other callings isn’t as much a competiton as it is a balancing act. Overall we
    want the various callings to be competitive with each other in their comparative roles. There
    isn’t a mandate that Rogues do more damage than Warriors or that Mages be the best ranged
    damage in the game. Ideally we would like to see players with equivalent skill, gear, planar
    attunement, buffs etc be equally effective at damage, tanking or healing.


    the link : http://bluedots.org/2011/11/10/interview-with-kervik/

    an interview with Kervik.

    For the rotation , i think i have the perfect rotation for each spec , with proper Macros.

    So for me 20% difference in the same calling is not exactly equally effective.
    And i don't even talk with other calling. A mage doing 4K dps on murdantix (pure single target fight) with a rogue doing 3200 (with the same gear level) is fine for you ?
    Last edited by Atheres; 12-13-2011 at 05:43 AM.

  11. #11
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    Thx for the quote, it's quite vague indeed...
    equals healing, tanking and damages...that's a lot of 'equals' thing, I think Trion is not very familiar with the '=' sign and mathematics...
    But what is quite accurate is : they are talking between callings, not between speccs...(I doubt a sin would ever get same tanking as a RS...)

    Quote Originally Posted by Atheres View Post
    A mage doing 4K dps on murdantix (pure single target fight) with a rogue doing 3200 (with the same gear level) is fine for you ?
    This is completely off topic but at least this fits the Trion's quote...

    Quote Originally Posted by Atheres View Post

    For the rotation , i think i have the perfect rotation for each spec , with proper Macros.
    If you think so, that's a good start. Personnally I wouldn't even post parses if I didn't 'think' they were the best...Anyway, besides rotations, what about 51ranger, 51sin, 51sab? So, equal dps between 51s speccs is definitly not Trion's objectiv...
    So, yes, I m fine with it since I can switch when I m getting to much concerned about my dps...

    "A dagger in the dark is worth a thousand swords at dawn..".

  12. #12
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    Right from Rift's start many players keep insisting that the Bladedancer is supposed to be a "Soloing Specialist" rather than a real DPS soul.

    I'd really like someone to explain to me why this is so. It's a rule that seems to apply to the Bladedancer... and no-one else.

    Frankly my own experience is that the Bladedancer really isn't that great at it at all. The best solo surviviability tools from my experience are the Riftstalker Rift Scavenger, Assassin Leeching Poison and Ranger Boar. Sure the Bladedancer has a few useful abilities to add; especially for AoE killing. But by no means is it a soul that's designed around soloing.

    So, yes, the Bladedancer should be a DPS soul competitive with the others in the calling.
    Last edited by Kedon; 12-13-2011 at 06:19 AM.

  13. #13
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    @ Gaaz :
    Well , you can argue i don't know the rotation or anything else , but in the end , the results is the same.
    There is a lot of rogue who have try each spec , like Kurieg , Qan , Kokie , Hoko , and a lot more.
    And each one have the same result.
    BD do a lot less dps than ours others dps spec. And by a good amount.

    You can say it's boring to have all spec provide the same dps. I say , it's boring to be confinate in only one spec when you play in a guild who run for the First down of the shard , or the race to the kill.

    If you think i don't have proper rotation , that's your point of view . But the point is BD do less dps than every other melee spec. Different rogue , same results.
    Otherwise , how you can explain each rogue who have do the test have the same result ? Maybe we are all incompetent , i don't know.......
    Last edited by Atheres; 12-13-2011 at 06:29 AM.

  14. #14
    Sword of Telara
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    Make Contra Tempo apply to all Bladedancer combo point builders, combine Combat Efficiency and Combat Culmination, switch Unabated Steel and Blade Tempo's places in the tree and change Blade Tempo to 50%.

    AP scaling will take care of the rest.

  15. #15
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    You do know what forum you are posting this in right?

    None of these suggestions will ever happen. You all are wasting your time.

    I almost wanna make that my signature =)
    Last edited by Petgroup; 12-13-2011 at 06:47 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyle View Post
    A rogue can top the parse on every boss in HK if they use the right spec, and it's been that way for months.

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