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Thread: What if Guarded Steel added 100% base deflect?

  1. #16
    Telaran Igneel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lJustAlexl View Post
    Instead of asking for rogue tanks to be brought in line with warriors, some of you prefer the warriors be brought back down, ignoring the fact that when new and more difficult content comes along they'd have to be brought back up again anyway.

    Wonderful logic.
    Ye the logic certanly is screwed up...

    But is it just me or does any other class get buffed/gets other class nerfed if they QQ enough while rouges achive nothing...

    Don't we QQ enough?

    4 Warrior QQ we do too much dps, bam rouges get nerfed, some wariors QQ about tanking bam they get boosted.

    We get boosted we say ty trion and the next patch they revert it.... what a great patch that was...

    I concluded that we don't QQ enough and that we need to start massively QQ-ing in order to get stuff done for us XD

    And there was a rouge (did not quote) who said we need overhauling. Careful don't speak about that publicly cause ppl will flame u down :P

    Sad, but true

  2. #17
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by lJustAlexl View Post
    Instead of asking for rogue tanks to be brought in line with warriors, some of you prefer the warriors be brought back down, ignoring the fact that when new and more difficult content comes along they'd have to be brought back up again anyway.

    Wonderful logic.
    I don't think you understand how it works. If left as it is one of two things will happen with the new content.

    1) It's designed around the mitigation of a cleric or rogue tank, making the warrior tank's mitigation making the raid easier than designed.

    2) It's designed around the mitigation of warriors and clerics and rogues get shafted.

    Bringing clerics and rogues up to warriors OR bringing warriors down to where clerics and rogues are now achieves the same goal. Trion just has to pick one and do it right.

  3. #18
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by farore View Post
    I don't think you understand how it works. If left as it is one of two things will happen with the new content.

    1) It's designed around the mitigation of a cleric or rogue tank, making the warrior tank's mitigation making the raid easier than designed.

    2) It's designed around the mitigation of warriors and clerics and rogues get shafted.

    Bringing clerics and rogues up to warriors OR bringing warriors down to where clerics and rogues are now achieves the same goal. Trion just has to pick one and do it right.
    Not necessarily. If Trion doesn't bring rogue and cleric tanks in line with warriors (which I feel they should do), then the new content is going to have to be at the level we currently have. On the other hand, if Trion brings the other two in line with warriors, then the new content can be more difficult and will include better loot to match it.

    It seems to me the best option would be for Rogues and Clerics to be brought up. Otherwise we'll just get more of the same.
    Last edited by lJustAlexl; 12-09-2011 at 08:31 AM.

  4. #19
    Plane Walker Kryptyx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lJustAlexl View Post
    Instead of asking for rogue tanks to be brought in line with warriors, some of you prefer the warriors be brought back down, ignoring the fact that when new and more difficult content comes along they'd have to be brought back up again anyway.

    Wonderful logic.
    Incorrect, because progression scaling should be handled via gear, not the core structure of the tanks abilities and passives.

    If you maxed out your gear in the current tier, you should be able to start the next tier.
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  5. #20
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kryptyx View Post
    Incorrect, because progression scaling should be handled via gear, not the core structure of the tanks abilities and passives.

    If you maxed out your gear in the current tier, you should be able to start the next tier.
    I disagree. This way, tanks are able to handle new content earlier if they happen to not become equipped as fast as their dps and healing raid members. I know this isn't as much an issue in HK and RotP where tanking equipment can be boss specific, but prior to that, tanking items dropped very rarely.

    Improving their abilities and passives provides them more options and variety and easier access to new content for the entire raid.
    Last edited by lJustAlexl; 12-09-2011 at 09:27 AM.

  6. #21
    Plane Walker Kryptyx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lJustAlexl View Post
    I disagree. This way, tanks are able to handle new content earlier if they happen to not become equipped as fast as their dps and healing raid members. I know this isn't as much an issue in HK and RotP where tanking equipment can be boss specific, but prior to that, tanking items dropped very rarely.

    Improving their abilities and passives provides them more options and variety and easier access to new content for the entire raid.
    Scaling is still based on gear, that is the whole point of toughness.
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  7. #22
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kryptyx View Post
    Scaling is still based on gear, that is the whole point of toughness.
    Do you think it's based solely on toughness? Getting the items necessary to meet the bare minimum of toughness and thinking you can clear everything with that requirement doesn't take people very far.

    Hell, even as an MT, I'll wait to get two or three more solid tank pieces after hitting the toughness requirement to ensure my healers have a good buffer. Not so necessary after 1.6, but certainly more so beforehand.

  8. #23
    Plane Walker Kryptyx's Avatar
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    What I'm trying to say is that we should not have to have our talent trees reworked every time a new tier of content comes out. Our ability to tank mobs should scale with the gear we acquire. The problem right now with 1.6 is that we are kind of where we were before HK. We are viable, we can tank without stressing our healers, but the gap between Rogues and Warriors is still steep. Once the next tier of content comes out, it will become obvious how big that gap really is and once again we will be where we were when HK came out.

    Some people argue that Warriors should be a better tank over Riftstalkers and Justicars because they have more tanking souls... While I disagree with that, I will not argue against it as long as Riftstalkers and Justicars are viable and not so far behind. When I say not far behind, I'm talking like 5-10% max.
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  9. #24
    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lJustAlexl View Post
    Instead of asking for rogue tanks to be brought in line with warriors, some of you prefer the warriors be brought back down, ignoring the fact that when new and more difficult content comes along they'd have to be brought back up again anyway.

    Wonderful logic.
    Warrior tanking mitigation and HP was absolutely fine before 1.6. There was no reason to buff it. Bringing it back to where it was is a lot simpler than making more, extensive changes to Riftstalkers and Justicars. Fewer changes = less opportunity to screw it up.

    Also there is something to be said for this incessant insistence that classes should always be buffed, not nerfed. Then the same people turn around and whine if Trion nerfs content. It's the same bloody thing. Nerfs are necessary when one particular soul is outperforming many souls that perform the same function. Buffing means buffing other Warrior tank souls as well because Reaver is simply over the top.
    Last edited by Ianto Jones; 12-09-2011 at 03:48 PM.

  10. #25
    RIFT Guide Writer Sekhmet The Fierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianto Jones View Post
    Warrior tanking mitigation and HP was absolutely fine before 1.6. There was no reason to buff it. Bringing it back to where it was is a lot simpler than making more, extensive changes to Riftstalkers and Justicars. Fewer changes = less opportunity to screw it up.

    Also there is something to be said for this incessant insistence that classes should always be buffed, not nerfed. Then the same people turn around and whine if Trion nerfs content. It's the same bloody thing. Nerfs are necessary when one particular soul is outperforming many souls that perform the same function. Buffing means buffing other Warrior tank souls as well because Reaver is simply over the top.
    What happened to Warrior Tanking was this:


    Only two viable tanking specs: 51VK, and VK/Pal/WL hybrid.

    Warriors lament at the lack of options.

    Trion steps in, intends on making more tanking souls other than VK to be viable.

    Trion redoes the tanking trees.

    Now 38RV rules them all and 51VK is gimp.

    Warriors lament at the lack of options.


    Warrior tanking didn't need the ridiculous buff to Reaver, it needed to have souls other than VK to be viable to spec deep in to. However as always, Trion has a habit of missing the mark...

    As for me, I'm sticking to just DPS warrior and my rogue alt...
    Last edited by Sekhmet The Fierce; 12-10-2011 at 07:11 AM.
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  11. #26
    Plane Touched
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    Kryptix is completely correct.

    Abilties/Soul points should enhance and augment the class (in this case Riftstalker) by scaling with gear. Prior to Deflect we only scaled with Endurance and Dodge. That said we're getting in better position, but still take a decent amount more damage than Warriors, and it's easy to see why. Our gear is lacking the same type of itemization as Clerics/Warriors.

    Though I'd like to say Clerics need a lot of work too (for Tanking).

  12. #27
    Shadowlander dcepshn's Avatar
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    It'll just make NB/RS PVP spec OP
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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcepshn View Post
    It'll just make NB/RS PVP spec OP
    You can't can't CAN'T scale PVE with PVP. It doesn't work that way.

    Why I suggested in another thread is to scale the 'bonuses' of Guardian Phase over the talents and make Deflect an ability higher in the tree.

    I HATE that PVP impacts PVE tanking. Stupid.

  14. #29
    Telaran
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    What if Deflect scaled with Parry, as well as Dex?

  15. #30
    Ascendant charliekelly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eilidh View Post
    What if Deflect scaled with Parry, as well as Dex?
    i dont understand why itd be anything other than endurance. you should be rewarded for using tank gear on a tank. atm dex gear provides more mitigation, explain?

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