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Thread: Anyone try 51 MM, 13 NB, 2 X?

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple
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    Default Anyone try 51 MM, 13 NB, 2 X?

    13 NB gives 21% total extra damage done.
    15 Ranger gives you 18% damage, 5% crit, and IQS + Crippling Shot

    BUT with 13 NB you get 2 extra points to spend (6% AP from RS for example), and also dont have to cast shadow fire.

    It seems like they would be close, with NB spec being much easier to play without having to IQS and Shadow Fire.

  2. #2
    Champion of Telara Puandro's Avatar
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    5% crit and lose the ranger greater and 46 AP buff. MM is so mind numbing easy to play after the nerf. You also lose 4% damage and 5% from headshot.
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  3. #3
    Champion ShazzamCrucia's Avatar
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    I ran 51mm/15nb for a couple raid nights a while back, it parsed ~150-200dps less than 51mm/15rng.


    51mm/15sin is better if you want a kindergarten rotation.
    <Bastion>
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  4. #4
    Champion of Telara aileen's Avatar
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    With full ap core, dps difference from rng not so much. Me and my friend started to use it cuz it has easy rotation,
    2 point on RS for extra ap, thou if you go unstable state it will only increase electrified munitions so not needed.
    This is the 5min result on dummy http://s10.postimage.org/d14qgojq0/2..._01_024556.jpg, whetstones are left from 10man ;p but still no bard/debuff on dummy spec done really good dps thou.

    Only fight this week I used MM was darktide because I'm going to range/caster side to help interrupts if missed on other fights mostly tanked cuz we are now gearing some new people.

    On darktide I done 2187dps was 2nd rogue top dps, other user was 2200 dps (boss himself not stages) he was using 51mm/14rng/1rs so he had more ap then me cuz of shadow fire and ranger buff, he also uses gun from trash, I'm using bow from darktide means I'm having trail lose. It's reliable spec but If you are geared well.

    Already made some post about it here http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...ml#post3432964.

    Really nice spec, of course not best but easy to use and no need to track so much stuff and almost similar dps.
    Last edited by aileen; 12-06-2011 at 09:47 AM.
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  5. #5
    Sword of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottyAj2 View Post
    13 NB gives 21% total extra damage done.
    15 Ranger gives you 18% damage, 5% crit, and IQS + Crippling Shot

    BUT with 13 NB you get 2 extra points to spend (6% AP from RS for example), and also dont have to cast shadow fire.

    It seems like they would be close, with NB spec being much easier to play without having to IQS and Shadow Fire.
    15 Rng gives:
    +14% damage from Shadow Fire
    +5% damage from Head Shot
    +4% damage from Killing Focus
    Crippling Shot, which hits harder than your spammable
    +5% Crit
    -4% Damage Taken
    +30% Quick Shot damage over 6 sec (does not stack)
    +46 AP
    +100 more AP from Ranger Greater Essence
    Divert Rage (aggro dump on your pet)

    Total:
    +23% damage to everything, +53% to Quick Shot as long as you don't clip it (use Swift Shot when bleed is up)
    +146 AP
    +5% Crit
    Utility

    13NB gives:
    +15% to builders and finishers
    +6% damage to everything
    +20% damage for 8 sec coming out of stealth (so only once per pull)
    Ranged Sap

    Total:
    +21% Damage to builders and finishers, only +6% (or +12% if you go 15NB) to Fan Out/LF 100% uptime
    +41% damage to builders and finishers for 8 sec out of stealth

    15Sin:
    +5% Crit
    +4% damage
    +10% damage with theoretical 100% uptime
    Serrated Blades only if you are in melee ranged and macro in melee startattack
    Expose Weakness
    Puncture if you take 2/3 SB or only +2% damage.
    Stealth Utility

    To me, 15Rng is a no brainer. Most utility, most AP, most survivability (unless you are taking Fire or Death damage, then 15NB takes this one), most +% damage and doesn't have the failure of Expose Weakness (target switching).

  6. #6
    Sword of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pink Freud View Post
    15 Rng gives:
    +14% damage from Shadow Fire
    +5% damage from Head Shot
    +4% damage from Killing Focus
    Crippling Shot, which hits harder than your spammable
    +5% Crit
    -4% Damage Taken
    +30% Quick Shot damage over 6 sec (does not stack)
    +46 AP
    +100 more AP from Ranger Greater Essence
    Divert Rage (aggro dump on your pet)

    Total:
    +23% damage to everything, +53% to Quick Shot as long as you don't clip it (use Swift Shot when bleed is up)
    +146 AP
    +5% Crit
    Utility

    13NB gives:
    +15% to builders and finishers
    +6% damage to everything
    +20% damage for 8 sec coming out of stealth (so only once per pull)
    Ranged Sap

    Total:
    +21% Damage to builders and finishers, only +6% (or +12% if you go 15NB) to Fan Out/LF 100% uptime
    +41% damage to builders and finishers for 8 sec out of stealth

    15Sin:
    +5% Crit
    +4% damage
    +10% damage with theoretical 100% uptime
    Serrated Blades only if you are in melee ranged and macro in melee startattack
    Expose Weakness
    Puncture if you take 2/3 SB or only +2% damage.
    Stealth Utility

    To me, 15Rng is a no brainer. Most utility, most AP, most survivability (unless you are taking Fire or Death damage, then 15NB takes this one), most +% damage and doesn't have the failure of Expose Weakness (target switching).
    Edit: Forgot to talk about end behavior.

    The ST DPS difference between 15NB and 15Rng will diminish the higher your AP grows, because + flat amount AP buffs become less valuable. NB is only 2% behind in percentage additive damage, which is well within the margin of error for random number generation (lucky crits vs no crits).

    Sooner or later it will become most valuable to stack as much +% as you can. +% Damage and +%AP. This is why Electrfied Munitions will probably become worthless, in the long run. It's scaling comes from points invested (and the minimum amount of AP scaling, I believe). So once you are 51 MM, it will only get better with a better gun/bow, and always only get +10% AP value (unless Controlled Fire counts EM as an ability, then it will always retain usefulness). Meanwhile, if Trion decides to gives bosses higher Armor values every tier, Rending Munitions will become extremely valuable.

  7. #7
    Ascendant Archemys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShazzamCrucia View Post
    I ran 51mm/15nb for a couple raid nights a while back, it parsed ~150-200dps less than 51mm/15rng.


    51mm/15sin is better if you want a kindergarten rotation.
    Same.. here.

    Plus I have the pradatory stone for +100 AP w\ shadow fire. And here in a while when I get my 4 piece bonus, shadow fire and splinter shot will be instant cast and it will speed up my dps alot.
    <Coriolis>
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  8. #8
    Rift Chaser
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pink Freud View Post
    15 Rng gives:
    +14% damage from Shadow Fire
    +5% damage from Head Shot
    +4% damage from Killing Focus
    Crippling Shot, which hits harder than your spammable
    +5% Crit
    -4% Damage Taken
    +30% Quick Shot damage over 6 sec (does not stack)
    +46 AP
    +100 more AP from Ranger Greater Essence
    Divert Rage (aggro dump on your pet)

    Total:
    +23% damage to everything, +53% to Quick Shot as long as you don't clip it (use Swift Shot when bleed is up)
    +146 AP
    +5% Crit
    Utility

    13NB gives:
    +15% to builders and finishers
    +6% damage to everything
    +20% damage for 8 sec coming out of stealth (so only once per pull)
    Ranged Sap

    Total:
    +21% Damage to builders and finishers, only +6% (or +12% if you go 15NB) to Fan Out/LF 100% uptime
    +41% damage to builders and finishers for 8 sec out of stealth

    15Sin:
    +5% Crit
    +4% damage
    +10% damage with theoretical 100% uptime
    Serrated Blades only if you are in melee ranged and macro in melee startattack
    Expose Weakness
    Puncture if you take 2/3 SB or only +2% damage.
    Stealth Utility

    To me, 15Rng is a no brainer. Most utility, most AP, most survivability (unless you are taking Fire or Death damage, then 15NB takes this one), most +% damage and doesn't have the failure of Expose Weakness (target switching).
    I hate pets so I skipped the whole Head shot pet thing and went the piercing build because 3 in piercing still gives you the highest armor debuff

  9. #9
    General of Telara livnthedream's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pink Freud View Post
    Edit: Forgot to talk about end behavior.

    The ST DPS difference between 15NB and 15Rng will diminish the higher your AP grows, because + flat amount AP buffs become less valuable. NB is only 2% behind in percentage additive damage, which is well within the margin of error for random number generation (lucky crits vs no crits).

    Sooner or later it will become most valuable to stack as much +% as you can. +% Damage and +%AP. This is why Electrfied Munitions will probably become worthless, in the long run. It's scaling comes from points invested (and the minimum amount of AP scaling, I believe). So once you are 51 MM, it will only get better with a better gun/bow, and always only get +10% AP value (unless Controlled Fire counts EM as an ability, then it will always retain usefulness). Meanwhile, if Trion decides to gives bosses higher Armor values every tier, Rending Munitions will become extremely valuable.
    em only scales with weapon dps. also, your theory for stacking % effects is off. all of the % based talents in game are additive. as you start stacking them they actually become less powerful due to how scaling works. its why sabdancer was so poor on sicaron. we already relied on deadly dances 105% buff, so the additional buff didnt do much at all.
    "I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won."

  10. #10
    Sword of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by hejtmane View Post
    I hate pets so I skipped the whole Head shot pet thing and went the piercing build because 3 in piercing still gives you the highest armor debuff
    You do not need to have a pet out for Head Shot. Head Shot increases your own damage by 5%, in addition to the pet's.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by livnthedream View Post
    em only scales with weapon dps. also, your theory for stacking % effects is off. all of the % based talents in game are additive. as you start stacking them they actually become less powerful due to how scaling works. its why sabdancer was so poor on sicaron. we already relied on deadly dances 105% buff, so the additional buff didnt do much at all.
    What I am getting at is when 46 AP is less than or equal to 15% of your AP, it is from then on more beneficial to have the +15%, as your next upgrade will give you more than 46 AP. Same with a flat damage proc vs a scaling ability.

    Also, I think there are multiplicative damage increases (I remember somebody saying they figured out that Silver Tip is one, as it is target dependent).

  12. #12
    Plane Touched
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    If you have 307+ attack power, a +% talent will give you more AP than the Ranger buff.

    If you have 974 attack power, a +% talent will give you more AP than the Ranger buff and the Predatory buff.

    So like stated already, as gear gets better, the gap will close. I'm already well over 1000 AP raid buffed in a 51mm/14rng/1rs spec, and I"m not BiS yet by a long shot. Should be interesting to compare how they scale.

    It's definitely possible that a /15nb or /13nb/2rs or /15asn spec may catch the ranger once with scaling at a certain gear level. That math is beyond me however.
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  13. #13
    Plane Touched PORTERR's Avatar
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    44MM/10NB/12INF is actually the best range PvP spec for me. But 14 or 15 RNG is the way to go for PvE !


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  14. #14
    Champion of Telara aileen's Avatar
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    People are also forgetting by going NB as sub soul, you don't need shadow fire essence. Which means you can go another BiS lesser and get the AP from it, also keep this in mind please as your gear grows up spec you use changes maybe when T3 items introduced MM/NB spec will beat MM/RNG one. For me they are on par on dpsing only thing with this spec you don't buff so much is non combo abilities like fanout/lightning fury and when there is mages doing aoe like crazy there is no need aoe on most fights done by rogues anyway.
    Last edited by aileen; 12-06-2011 at 04:47 PM.
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  15. #15
    Champion of Telara aileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pink Freud View Post
    15 Rng gives:

    Total:
    +23% damage to everything, +53% to Quick Shot as long as you don't clip it (use Swift Shot when bleed is up)
    Sadly It's not buffing everything, It's buffing %23 to ranged weapon attacks. Only thing buffing everything is %5 from headshot.EM is not getting buffed from shadow fire buff or %4 from talent.
    PS: Sorry for double post
    Last edited by aileen; 12-06-2011 at 04:52 PM.
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