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Thread: Couple of Rogue Tips and Tricks for PvP.

  1. #1
    Banned Shadowprison's Avatar
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    Default Couple of Rogue Tips and Tricks for PvP.

    Okay this is just a little guide for some of the small things you can do with rogue abilities. You probably know some of these, but this is mainly for those who don't. This is only about the tricky stuff you can do, not the basic stuff.

    I'm only going to use the souls I use specifically, so if anyone has something to say for Blade Dancer, Ranger, Bard, or Saboteur, feel free to post it.

    It will be easier to do this on a soul-by-soul basis, I'll note anything that is useful to use with other souls.

    Firstly as a general statement, combat in world PvP and warfront PvP drops after 6 seconds. In duels it it bugged to heck and back and takes like 15 seconds. It will also not drop if either player has a reflect shield hitting back from DoTs, this means something like Rift Barrier.

    For all Class:

    - Learn to love focus CC macros. They are absolutely amazing.

    - Always watch your buffs, losing Fell blades because you tunnel Visioned is quite bad, I think there are addons to help with this.


    Riftstalker:

    This has to be one of the funner auxiliary trees that you can take as a rogue, not only do you get ports, you also get a myriad of defensive and offensive CDs.

    Rift Prison:

    This has to be the best rogue CC out there by far. This is because it is the longest lasting CC that doesn't break on damage, but also the only one categorized as a Banish. Banish means that they receive no healing from any of their abilities, but also take no damage from anything except for Fang ticks and Vessel ticks in Warfronts. This is a key thing to note.

    - One thing you can use Rift prison for is CC a Vessel/Fang carrier when they are in a position to tick for fatal damage. Line up rift prison to have the tick of damage come while he will be controlled by the CC.

    - Another use for Rift prison is to help HoTs fall off a cleric, or his healing target. This is mainly useful against wardens, as they will be healing while CCed otherwise so CC is meaningless with them (also they receive bubbles from their heals while CCed if they took the PvP tree talent). This also can be tied into the next tip.

    - Free combo points! Yup, you can still build combo points on the player even if they are immune to damage. Got a Warden low on health? Prison him and let his HoTs fall off while building combo points for that next finisher!

    Riftstalker Ports/Shifts:

    These ones will probably be more obvious, but one or two might be new to you. Firstly note that Shadow Stalk, Assault, and Blitz will be all essentially the same mechanics-wise come 1.6.1.

    - Target Pew-Pewing your team from a wall? Shift to him! This is one of the reasons that Riftstalker is such a fun soul.

    - Combine shifts with CC to help spread CC. Got melee range CC that need to get off? Shift to that healer/other player and stun him, then port back to your target. Works best with Assassin CC and Blade dancer CC. Can also be used to CC a target out of your range with 20m Abilities, Shift towards them, Blind/Interrupt/Prison/DC/etc, then shift back to your target. This meshes really well with Planar Switch if you go that deep into riftstalker.

    - The tricky stuff: But possibly the most awesome when you pull it off intentionally for the first time, "Shadow-stepping" Charges/Ports. The basics of this are quite simple for charges, not so much for other ports. Both basically come down to timing. With charges such as Flash of Steel and Bullrush, you simply use your Shadow Stalk/Assault/Blitz the moment they start their charge and you will switch places with them basically.

    With Ports such as other Riftstalkers or Riftwalk from RBs, this is much much harder. Basically this comes down to prediction, knowing when you are in the butter zone to make them port, as well as predicting when they come off global cooldown. This is only really possible because the ports are not entirely instant, and you have like a 100ms window to do it, thanks to Rifts client character positioning lag. Essentially they have already ported to you, but your client says that you are porting to him when he was in the previous position.

    Note that the best ability for the job is Shadow Stalk as it will remove the CC from you, otherwise you will still be rooted at the other end.

    This can be melded with bleed kiting against other melees with Assassin, or just general melee kiting like with Nightblade or Marksman.

    - Memory capture aboos. Quite possibly the most fun Riftstalker port, as this doesn't require line of sight to use. This ability is amazing to use for flag capturing, as you can drop it at the point of pickup and hide out of site and wait for it to respawn, or you can use it to kite away a player and get him to leave the spot.

    Can also be use to run away like a coward (who lives) if things go south.

    More general Riftstalker stuff:

    - You got the only Self based non GTAoE that doesn't require a target. Use it to pop those stealthies.

    - You may not wish to take Rift Barrier if you use stealth alot, it causes combat issues and can break CC like blind if that player has a DoT on you.


    Nightblade:

    Pretty simple tree, 51Nb/15Inf has like 12 buttons, so the play isn't that complex. The tips will be more general when to use this CD, and how to set up your burst properly.

    Damage:

    - Heat retention is probably the most important ability for you to keep track of. It is extremely silly to use SoD without 5 stacks of Heat Retention up, as you just wasted 30% of potential front-loaded burst. The only time it would be okay to use a finisher without Heat Retention is when you have Ebon Fury up and are sitting at under 3 stacks due to the awkwardness of weaving in Dusk to Dawn. Likewise you should never use Blazing Strike/Flame Thrust without the Nightrage buff up.

    CCs:

    - Spreading CC around as a Nightblade can be quite difficult, mainly because they are mostly in stealth. The best way to use this CC is to drop it onto healers while bursting down the squishy targets first. One of the best ways to solo a Stone holder in Whitefall when it turns in camp vs camp is with a Nightblade. The heal debuff will stack up to 75%, so healers jobs are already difficult.

    Firstly what you want to do is set up a focus target to make your life easier. In this situation there will be 3 healing classes sitting next to the Stone holder. Sap the first one with Lost

    Hope, immediately open on a next one with Smother to silence, and immediately after that CC the last one with Dark containment. With GCDs taken into account you have (assuming no Break Free on any of the healers) 7 seconds, 5 seconds, and 3 seconds before the healers can start to heal. With Cookiecutter NB/RS you can also drop a rift prison on the carrier once he gets low to help HoTs drop off and to bait the healers into blowing their big instant heals.

    Other than that, you can kite melees by dishing out Twilight Forces to slow them.

    Its almost always best to open with Smother on caster targets, as you really don't get any other CC to use with it.

    CDs:

    - Defensive CD usage can be hard to pinpoint when to use it, so a more general method is the best approach. Twilight Shelter is best used when an opponent is about to hit you with their big nuke, like when you see the cinderburst proc buff on a pyro. Twilight Transcendence being 3 things: a heal, a cleanse, and a damage reducer requires alot more careful usage. If you are below 60% health, popping it at will isn't so bad, but you should time it with your opponents burst. Using the cleanse portion of it is a tad more situational. You really don't want to use it when you are above 75% just to cleanse something, unless however it is something extremely crippling like Transference and Traitorous Influence. Use your other cleanses first. In the case of storm shackles, just use Shelter and run thru it.

    - Offensively you only really get Ebon Fury, or Living Flame if you are 51 points in. It is really silly to just blow this right off the bat without trying to bait CDs from the target, as the burst it provides is actually better after you start to become energy starved. Living Flame should be used alongside of Ebon Fury after setting up SoD to destroy your target when you are ready to do so.


    Assassin:

    My personal favourite soul when paired with Riftstalker, if only it wasn't so fail. Mainly just
    tips about stealth and target selection.

    Stealth stuff:

    - Firstly, combat starts when any offensive action is taken, and will drop if no offensive action is taken for 6 seconds. Healing is a bit different, and any heals/buffs used on a target in combat will place them in combat, and will drop after 6 seconds from last healing/buffing action taken. This only applies to buffs that affect other players.

    Apart from vanish, there are other ways you can get a restealth if you get caught with your pants down. CCing a target with Blind/Rift Prison will drop combat if nobody takes an action for 6 seconds, allowing you to restealth.

    You can also use this to blind another player, and when you are ready to vanish, you can sap that player. Helps in 2v1s. Do note that Shadow Stalking/Shifting towards the CCed player can bug him into combat.

    Do note that Rift barrier causes a crap-ton of headaches with stealth/CC, so debate whether you want to take it. cancleaura Rift Guard on Vanish is a good idea, as the reflect can make some things boot you out of stealth that otherwise wouldn't, such as serrated blades (basically passive DoTs that don't proc trinkets/greaters).

    Knowing your target:

    - With Rifts soul system its hard to say what to do and what not to do against some classes, so here's more of a general thing:

    - Don't Do:
    - Use poisons or Serpent Strike against a 38 VK with Fusion of Flesh up
    - Use Jagged Strike against a Tank
    - Use Foul Play/Paralyzing Strike on a High health target.
    - Expect to bleed out a Paladin from stealth, or another Riftstalker. The reflect breaks it.

    - Do:
    - Pick proper poisons for the target. IE don't use Debilitating Poison on a rogue or warrior, use Lethal instead.
    - Use your Vanish before the other rogue can bleed you if you get the opener.
    - Re-stealth by Line of Sighting if you are at a disadvantage.


    Marksman:

    Pew Pewing stuff from range. Eradiboticating.

    Eradicate:

    - You will be doing a lot of this at a lower rank, as it is the main thing you can contribute as a low ranked rogue in a warfront. The first task of a marksman should always be to identify targets that should be purged, and only focus on purging those buffs as otherwise it is a DPS loss.

    Basically, you need to know all the powerful buffs that each soul in every class can carry, and identify targets that have them up. For example, purging Slayers Bearing off a warrior cuts their crit damage by 25%, that adds up.

    Don't spend too much time eradicating, especially HoTs as they are applied far too fast.

    - Kite, kite, kite and kite some more. Despite what all the mage trolls would have you believe, 35M won't be able to kite mages due to client update lag. Kiting 20m range is doable, but its situational and takes practice.

    Primarily your job with kiting is to outlast the gap closers and stay away from the powerful abilities. You don't have to stay at 20m+ 100% of the time as nice as it is. Don't be escape CD burn happy, you should save them until you can no longer keep 8m+ on the target with just normal movement.

    If you are MM/RS you can use the Riftstalker "Shadow-stepping" Charges/Port tricks.

    Your only MM root breaks on damage, luckily it shouldn't break from barbed shot due to the mechanics. But you should use this to get as much distance as possible.

    DPS race:

    - With the few CC options marksman alone has you will get into DPS races against other Marksman. So what is the strategy? STAND STILL. I see so many Marksman vs Marksman where they feel the need to bunny hop around.

    Generally with your finishers you should always be standing still for a millisecond just to get the damage boost from Master Archer. Hilariously, Fan Out does more damage to high armoured targets than your standard builder due to being elemental damage. Get 5 combo points, Fanoutfanoutfanoutfanout, Finisher when low.

    Pick your munitions:

    - As a standard in Warfronts I always have Vampiric Munitions up. Electrified Munitions is usually your second best option, other than against super high armour targets in which case you can get your VM on him, then swap VM to Rending Munitions (Always buff VM first for this).

    Oddball tips:

    - Strafe procs Traitorous Influence only once, and can stop Warriors Riftwalk from working.

    - Eradicate doesn't proc Traitorous Influence if Memory serves me right.

    - Quick Reload + Retreat can be some serious Lulz (Flying rogues anyone?)



    Well that's done. Took forever for me to write.

    Comments welcome.
    Last edited by Shadowprison; 12-03-2011 at 04:53 PM.

  2. #2
    RIFT Guide Writer Zyzyx's Avatar
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    I like to use retreat to teleport to the other side of codex and knock the enemy healers down into the flag area.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

  3. #3
    Ascendant Am0n's Avatar
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    Nice.

    I am still cautious of using RS though. Due to the fact that Trion nerfs what the majority uses.
    "You lost me at Balance"

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    Banned Shadowprison's Avatar
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    Second page bump.

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    Rift Disciple Fleetness's Avatar
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    Fairly well known tip, but not obvious to a newbie.

    Incapacitate and Lost Hope can be used at the same time to CC two different players if you are NB/AS spec.

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    Prophet of Telara Raynald's Avatar
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    Mm tip.

    Even when standing still in a face-off between two mms, it's often simply not worth the time it takes to cast empowered shot or finish with deadeye.

    51mm really isn't the spec you want to be running for pvp, unless you are completely sure you have the room to kite( ie you are only queuing dex or scion) Very far, very fast, and play to the mm strength of running away running away!
    60Rog/PR64 - Cleared - FT | EE
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  7. #7
    Prophet of Telara Sezyrrith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zyzyx View Post
    I like to use retreat to teleport to the other side of codex and knock the enemy healers down into the flag area.
    This would also be nice with Memory Capture set back on the original side as well. Jump over, punt someone off, port back.
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  8. #8
    Ascendant Zaros's Avatar
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    I stopped running 44MM, so I thought I'd throw this out there.

    HAY GURRRRDIANS! You tired of having travel-time purges? Uh huh? Wish you had a gun like every single damn Defiant? Uh huh! Well do I have the tip for you.

    Step 1) Buy one of these.
    Step 2) Make a 'loadequip' macro to your CP builder using your current best gear.
    Step 3) Make a 'loadequip' macro to your Eradicate using your best gear with the Rifle.
    Step 4) ???
    Step 5) Profit! Trion's prejudice against Guardians solved! To a point, I suppose.


    Oh, also.
    Don't purge in 1v1s, circlestrafing isn't worth the damage you take from barbed, strafe when a warrior gets within 15M, and Crippling shot.
    ^ All my Rogue knowledge in one sentence. Bam.
    Last edited by Zaros; 12-05-2011 at 09:55 PM.
    ~Quiescent

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    Banned Shadowprison's Avatar
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    2nd page bump

  10. #10
    Plane Walker
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    The OP had some decent basic tips. Of course it's really going to come down to specific builds, as opposed to simply trees, as to how to use certains "tricks" best. The single most important tip, imo, is to learn the other classes. The OP touched on this slightly. But you use that knoweldge to predict what an opponent will do, when he'll do it, bait him in to CD's, react to his abilities and force him to use an ability at inopportune times (this is really important when running with a partner). If you are running a NB build and are getting ready to pop Ebon Fury on a cleric, you'll be much more effective if you've forced that cleric to pop Healers Covenant first, so that he won't have that ability ready to use when you pop EF, giving you the full amount of damage, for example. Otherwise you've just wasted a 2 minute CD.

    One general tip that a lot of new pvper's seem to not realize, is that running through your opponent is often better then running around them. IE, there are obvious reasons for wanting to be behind your target if you are using Assassin, but even if you are not using it, your opponent can't hit you (usually) when you are behind him. If you are faced with your opponent, run through him, not around him and immediately turn with your mouse (increase mouse speed in interface options if you need to). Then dance with him while he tries to change this obvious disadvantage. A good pvper won't allow you to be behind him for long, but it forces them to deal with it, and bad pvpers will die.

    That leads me to the last tip, which is to keybind all of your abilities and turn with your mouse. If you are clicking abilities and turning with your keyboard you will never be as fast as you could be otherwise.

  11. #11
    Banned Shadowprison's Avatar
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    Bump

    /10c

  12. #12
    Prophet of Telara Raynald's Avatar
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    Pick your pvp spec for the wf you're in as well.

    In smaller maps like BG and lib, sins and NB obviously fair much better than mm, which absolutely needs the room to kite/teleport etc to be at it's most effective.

    That's not to say it's impossible to play mm in lib. But it does result in hindrances that you must be able to compensate for.
    60Rog/PR64 - Cleared - FT | EE
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