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Thread: Q fixes Rogues [PvP]

  1. #1
    Ascendant Zaros's Avatar
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    Default Q fixes Rogues [PvP]

    This is mainly Infiltrator, but these have been annoying me for a while.

    ~ Marksman

    * Repelling Shot:
    Changed to 30M base range.
    Now correctly pushes the target back 15 meters.

    ~ Assassin

    * Blinding Powder
    No longer breaks on any sort of damage. The blind is dropped when the target loses 15% of it's current health.
    * Removed the movement penalty for being in stealth.

    ~ Nightblade

    * Dark Containment
    Functionality matched with Blinding powder.
    * Removed the movement penalty for being in stealth.

    Fun! Now that that's done with, Infiltrator.

    ~ Infiltrator
    Because this is an entire revamp of the tree, I'll be using the previous talent's names to replace what section and tier certain abilities will go.

    * Penetrating Strikes
    Functionality changed.
    Now increases melee attack's armor penetration by 5/10/15/20/25%
    Increases ranged attack's armor penetration by 3/6/9/12/15%
    Increases non-physical damage done by the Rogue by 1/2/3/4/5%.

    * Knock Knock
    Stays the same.

    * Murderous Thoughts
    Stays the same.

    * Sleight of Hand
    Functionality changed.
    Now is off the GCD, requires no energy and has an 8s cooldown. Only useable in melee range.

    * Pardon the Interruption
    Functionality changed.
    Finishing moves have a 10%/20% chance per combo point to grant a combo point.

    * Evading thoughts
    Reduces the duration of all stuns the Rogue receives by 10/20/30/40/50%.

    * Theft of Thought
    Functionality changed. Changed to:
    Theft of Vitality. 0 energy, Melee Range. 60s cooldown.
    A penetrating strike that ignores the enemy's armor. The Rogue strikes directly upon the nerves of an enemy, draining 75% of their energy/50% of their power, or 1000 Mana, and restoring 100% of the Rogue's own energy.

    * Focused Intent
    Stays the same.

    * Countering Strikes
    Now procs after being critically hit.

    * Ambush
    Change the dummies to hit just as hard as Split Personalities.

    *Take Cover
    Functionality changed.
    Replaced with: While in stealth, you mitigate all AoE damage by 10/20/30/40/50%.

    *Against All Odds
    After opening on a target from stealth, all other targets receive a 'detaunt' effect--damage to the Rogue is decreased by 50% for 10 seconds. This effect is cancelled when the Rogues' target dies, or if the Rogue inflicts damage on any other target.

    *Quick Recovery
    Switched places with 'Evading Thoughts'
    Functionality changed. Cures the Rogue of One/two harmful effects. 30s cooldown.

    *Improved Break Free
    Functionality stays the same, now reduces the cooldown of break free by 30s per point.
    Switches places with Sleight of Hand.

    *Fleet of Foot
    Increases movement speed by 2/4/6/8/10%.

    *Step Into the Shadows
    Stays the Same.

    *Grip Like Steel
    After being affected by a Disarm, you gain a 10/20% damage boost for the next 5 seconds.

    *Brush It Off
    Functionality changed. Changed to:
    The next ability will critically hit. 30s cooldown, unaffcted by GCD.

    *Expidited Wounds
    Functionality changed. Changed to 'Enemies with Benefits'.
    For every enemy within 5/10/15/20/25 meters of the enemy, your damage is increased by 1% per enemy.

    * Ignore Pain
    Functionality kept the same, cooldown reduced to two minutes. Changes places with Theft of Thought.

    ~~~ Root Abilities

    * Cloudy Poison
    Functionality changed.
    This ability restores 2 energy everytime the Rogue critically hits.

    * Cleanse Soul
    No longer provides an immunity, but is a full cleanse. Changed to affect Riftblade and Nightblade abilities as well.
    Cooldown reduced to 30 seconds.

    * Anathema
    Is no longer cleansable.
    Applicable from stealth.
    Is no longer overwritten by other debuffs.
    1 min 30s CD.

    * Camoflauge
    Functionality changed.
    'Recon Specialist' Passive.
    Applies a stacking buff for every enemy within 25 meters of the Rogue, increasing movement speed by 10% per enemy. Only applicable out of combat.
    If the rogue enters combat while the buff is applied, it will drop after 5 seconds of continued combat.
    Last edited by Zaros; 12-03-2011 at 02:05 AM.
    ~Quiescent

  2. #2
    Plane Touched SiliconShadow's Avatar
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    Can... not... resist... must...

    Lets talk about PVP,
    Lets talk about you and me,
    Lets talk about all the good things and the bad things that maybe,
    Lets talk about PVP,
    Lets talk about...

    >< IM SORRY IM SO SO SORRY!

    Some nice ideas but...

    Some are a little overpowered like anathema, it is almost a I win button

    Camoflauge I like it, but it is nullified by the stalker soul.

    Blinding powder is too powerful like that, it needs to remain break on damage for balance as for dark containment.

    That's really about it, a few tweaks I think the changes would make rogues more varied and viable, the sin/nb orientated changes have to be made very carefully though.

  3. #3
    Ascendant Zaros's Avatar
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    I'd agree, but I'm not balancing this around 1v1 play at all. There's no use for blinding powder and dark containment and anathema as it is in current PvP, because RIFT is a complete AoE hell. It could be even changed to 10 or 5%, but it needs something to prevent it from being instantly broken.

    And Anathema...having a 15 second window of 'for sure' 50% healing reduced on a long CD gives Anathema a way more tactical aspect, it won't be simply macro'd.

    How is Camoflauge nullified by Riftstalker...?
    ~Quiescent

  4. #4
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaros View Post

    * Ambush
    Change the dummies to hit just as hard as Split Personalities.

    FTW button? You know this ability already exists in Scotty's Friends, summon them and it's insta-pwn!
    Ok... maybe not. On the serious though, I disagree. I'd actually like to see this altered to be 3 rogue shadows (avatars much like the ghost effect from stealthed friendlies). They should all shadowbox and do exactly what the owner does, only scaled down.

    ...so, yeah. Totally agree!
    ...just in a completely different way.

  5. #5
    Ascendant Zaros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverfeather View Post
    FTW button? You know this ability already exists in Scotty's Friends, summon them and it's insta-pwn!
    Ok... maybe not. On the serious though, I disagree. I'd actually like to see this altered to be 3 rogue shadows (avatars much like the ghost effect from stealthed friendlies). They should all shadowbox and do exactly what the owner does, only scaled down.

    ...so, yeah. Totally agree!
    ...just in a completely different way.
    Whatever works without it being overpowered, honestly. I feel like the ability itself is pretty interesting, but it needs to be not a complete waste of a point...What it is now.

    EDIT: And I'm sure Scotty's dummies work just fine.
    Last edited by Zaros; 12-03-2011 at 01:57 PM.
    ~Quiescent

  6. #6
    Ascendant Cromagis's Avatar
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    Rogues aren't good enough already? :I
    Quote Originally Posted by Rizaz View Post
    Your opinion is wrong and you should feel bad for sharing it with the world.
    11/11 HK(World top 10), 4/4 ROTP, Greenscale/RoS Current-Content Conqueror, GP Cleared, TDH Cleared.

    Prestige Rank 8 in a weekend baby.

  7. #7
    Ascendant Zaros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cromagis View Post
    Rogues aren't good enough already? :I
    Actually, I wanted to make a PSA about Warrior melee.
    It would involve me, as a Marksman, using hyperbole and silly metaphors to describe how bad Warrior melee is for around 30 seconds, all the while being smacked in the face by a guildy and not dying.

    At the end, it would say "Buff Warrior melee. Think of the children."
    ~Quiescent

  8. #8
    RIFT Guide Writer Zyzyx's Avatar
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    Repelling shot is the worst thing in the game to try to use. Plz fix.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

  9. #9
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaros View Post
    This is mainly Infiltrator, but these have been annoying me for a while.


    ~ Assassin

    * Blinding Powder
    No longer breaks on any sort of damage. The blind is dropped when the target loses 15% of it's current health.
    Blind is great for saving Slip Away. I find myself using Blind on a mounted player I can't reach, then waiting for combat to drop so I can use regular stealth and re-open. I'll use it similarily if I get jumped and havent applied a dot yet.

    It's an old school technique but I rarely see many other rogues use blind in this way. Having it not break on damage kind of dumbs it down, if you ask me.

  10. #10
    Ascendant Zaros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hartidor View Post
    Blind is great for saving Slip Away. I find myself using Blind on a mounted player I can't reach, then waiting for combat to drop so I can use regular stealth and re-open. I'll use it similarily if I get jumped and havent applied a dot yet.

    It's an old school technique but I rarely see many other rogues use blind in this way. Having it not break on damage kind of dumbs it down, if you ask me.
    Yeah, but it also gives it a use in group PvP. A break-on-damage CC that isn't spammable like the Bards is a wasted point. It needs to at least have something to it, like fear, where it doesn't get broken because herpderp@derpstrike decided to throw a fan out and it tagged him.
    Last edited by Zaros; 12-03-2011 at 02:39 PM.
    ~Quiescent

  11. #11
    Ascendant Zaros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zyzyx View Post
    Repelling shot is the worst thing in the game to try to use. Plz fix.
    Actually, repelling shot is super useful. Ever since I put it on a quick-access key I've totally loved it. But it needs to knock back the actual 15m.
    ~Quiescent

  12. #12
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaros View Post
    Yeah, but it also gives it a use in group PvP. A break-on-damage CC that isn't spammable like the Bards is a wasted point. It needs to at least have something to it, like fear, where it doesn't get broken because herpderp@derpstrike decided to throw a fan out and it tagged him.
    If Blind didnt break on damage I would just abuse it, heh.

  13. #13
    Rift Disciple
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    I think one big way to fix the infiltrator tree would be to take out the ridiculous requires talent orders and make it operate just like EVERY other tree.

    I understand that each upgrade path is supposed to do something different, but the tree would be so much less bad if you could take the abilities you wanted instead of mixing and matching terrible trees, because let's face it, half the rank 6 abilities suck, and half the abilities leading to the ones that don't suck, so you're forced to take terrible abilities to get one or two good ones. I think that's a poor policy tbh.

  14. #14
    RIFT Guide Writer Zyzyx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaros View Post
    Actually, repelling shot is super useful. Ever since I put it on a quick-access key I've totally loved it. But it needs to knock back the actual 15m.
    Look at the functionality of it though. A range soul that has to be in melee to use an ability. This doesn't make sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

  15. #15
    Telaran
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    With the exception of Ambush, the rest of the branches and abilities are good the way they are. Strickly speaking from the point of view of the recent mage soul synergy break up. AM was hard to invest into without gimping yourself, then mages got competitive single soul builds. All of a sudden AM is op.

    Something along the lines of 34mm/21inf/8rang looks like enough points to be an easy mode marksman with enough tricks to be functional. I'm betting there's 51/15 builds you can come up with that are competitive with the 51/15's that are current mage FoTM's.

    Just saying the soul is good the way it is, just doesn't synergize very well for optimal builds (right now). Pushing the soul to be stronger would be an error as a fix (again not counting Ambush). I think every class should get the recent mage revamp with single souls being useful, allowing for the points to be spent freely. IF a single soul becomes viable in its own right, inf will be the tipping point that forces it into the OP side.

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