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Thread: Gyle fixes rogues again.

  1. #1
    RIFT Guide Writer Gyle's Avatar
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    Default Gyle fixes rogues again.

    So I have seen a fair number of people putting up “How I would fix rogues” threads, and rather than responding to each one with what I do/don’t like I figured I would make my own thread. I figure hell, if Trion listened to me about nerfing MM (as so many would like to believe) maybe I can use my special powers to get some fixes in. These are intended to be minimalistic changes with significant consequences.

    Bladedancer:

    Turn the Tide : Proc off of Crits as well

    Combat Culmination: removed and replaced with a talent that looks strangely similar to “Magnify Pain.” It is ridiculous that 17 Sin is the only way to get increased crit damage. If you made it 5-10-15% then BD would be good to go IMO.

    Contra Tempo: Now affects Twin Strike as well.

    Nightblade:

    Blackout: Increases both Fire and Death damage by as-read values.

    Dusk to Dawn: Reduce to 40 energy, can channel on the run.

    Blazing Fury: Add to ability increases Attack Power Bonus of CP generating abilities by 3-6-9-12-15%


    Saboteur:

    Residual Shrapnel : Increased from 35% to 60% and remove the special little charge buff from Deadly Dance, Sabdancer must die to make Sabo Viable on its own.

    Entangling Trap, Improved Entangling Trap, and Barbed Trap: Removed and replaced with a 3 point ability that increases Attack Power contribution to charge damage. Maybe as much as 50-100-150%, but 25-50-75% is probably more likely.

    Bard:

    Verse of Fascination: Removed and replaces with Verse of Cleansing, AoE cleanse with 30 second CD

    Motif of Encouragement: Removed

    Verse of Joy: Moved to 36 points where Motif of Encouragement used to be

    51 Point ability = Battle Rez : Verse of wake the F*** up.

    Motifs -> 1 Minute duration

    Cadence : Channel on the run, 30M range

    Assassin:

    Advanced Flanking: Change to Allows you to backstab from any position in melee at 45-95% damage. Increases damage of Backstab and all stealth openers by 10-20%


    Marksman:


    Is fine, screw marksman. (anybody see that coming?)

    In all seriousness, delete movement restriction from Master Archer, let MM run around , and switch places with Close Quarters Combat on the tree.

    Make EM crit, or make it scale better with AP.

    Ranger:


    This soul needs a lot, it is so bad that I have not used it in months. It is a completely wasted soul, the pet is worthless, it is only useful for leveling up, and giving Shadowfire to Marksman. I have no idea how to fix this terrible, terrible soul.

    Riftstalker:

    Fix blinks for DPS hybrids.

    Planar Disruption: silences target for 3 seconds.

    Instigate: teleports target to you as well as taunting a la Rift Summon.

    As far as tanking goes, I think that if Trion actually put +deflect on Items it would go a LONG way to making RS a competitive tanking soul. I don’t think much needs to be done with the soul, I think it lacks adequate gear. But I don’t tank enough to be really sure.
    Hastati (50 warrior), Tsar (50 cleric), Tsaritsa (50 Mage)
    Guides: 51 Bladedancer, Bloodstalker, Nightblade
    DPS Rogue <Trinity>
    5/8 ID; HK Conqueror

  2. #2
    Champion of Telara Nnnxia's Avatar
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    You deserve some form of redemption and these are all pretty good suggestions. Good work.

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    Plane Touched
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    Your move, Trion.

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    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nnnxia View Post
    You deserve some form of redemption and these are all pretty good suggestions. Good work.
    Yea, these are all the best suggestions I've seen thrown around by different people (including Gyle). Some polish suggestions and dps suggestions where needed amongst the souls.

    Only one I'd change is moving the damage buff from Dusk to Dawn to SoD, but really if Dusk to Dawn was 40 energy it might not be so horrible... though it's still a channeled ability in a melee build, which makes no sense in pve. Maybe 40 energy and usable on the move is a good idea, though I'm not sure if that would make it OP in pvp.

    I'd also be good to improve power cord so it's decent dps... for a bard dps option. Some way so you're choosing whether to dps or heal, it would make the class more fun. Bards are doing less dps then the tanks, so I can't see giving bards some dps being an issue.

    If sabdancer dying means sab will be viable - I hope sabdancer dies a horrible death.
    Last edited by Mayi; 11-28-2011 at 05:15 PM.
    I rite a gooded guide for rouges.

    NB-Sin Guide - http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...-sin-spec.html

  5. #5
    Shield of Telara
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    You have to think about PvP as well.. The changes to NB you suggest are making the most powerful rogue PvP spec(that many consider OP) even more powerful. At high end raiding, NB is already one of the best options for PvE as well. If anything, they need to nerf some of the NB abilities(namely Twilight Transcendence & fell blades[proc rate is too high])
    Snuggles - R40 Rogue : Snugglybear - R36 Mage
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  6. #6
    RIFT Guide Writer Gyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrifeV View Post
    You have to think about PvP as well.. The changes to NB you suggest are making the most powerful rogue PvP spec(that many consider OP) even more powerful. At high end raiding, NB is already one of the best options for PvE as well. If anything, they need to nerf some of the NB abilities(namely Twilight Transcendence & fell blades[proc rate is too high])
    I don't care about PvP ever, at all. Trion has said they wont balance PvE based on PvP. I don't care, reduce the damage in PvP if need be. Also NB is NOT OP in PvP unless you are bad.
    Last edited by Gyle; 11-28-2011 at 06:17 PM.
    Hastati (50 warrior), Tsar (50 cleric), Tsaritsa (50 Mage)
    Guides: 51 Bladedancer, Bloodstalker, Nightblade
    DPS Rogue <Trinity>
    5/8 ID; HK Conqueror

  7. #7
    Banned Swiftly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gyle View Post
    I don't care about PvP ever, at all. Trion has said they wont balance PvE based on PvP. I don't care, reduce the damage in PvP if need be. Also NB is NOT OP in PvP unless you are bad.
    You under estimate 51/15 in PVP, in the hands of a good player, it is really deadly.

  8. #8
    RIFT Guide Writer Gyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swiftly View Post
    You under estimate 51/15 in PVP, in the hands of a good player, it is really deadly.
    That's entirely possible, i was referring to NB/RS mainly.
    Hastati (50 warrior), Tsar (50 cleric), Tsaritsa (50 Mage)
    Guides: 51 Bladedancer, Bloodstalker, Nightblade
    DPS Rogue <Trinity>
    5/8 ID; HK Conqueror

  9. #9
    Banned Swiftly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gyle View Post
    That's entirely possible, i was referring to NB/RS mainly.
    That ****s dead.

    Personally liked NB/BD way better, but its not as viable anymore because of the NB nerfs.

  10. #10
    RIFT Guide Writer Gyle's Avatar
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    None the less, all of these changes are intended to affect PvE only. They are meant to minimize PvP impact, but i honestly dont think any of these changes would noticeably break PvP. Might require some tweaks, but honestly they are going to have to make a decision at some point if this is a PvE game with PvP options or a PvP game with raid content, because they can't keep both perfectly balanced, and their attempts to do so tend to break both.
    Hastati (50 warrior), Tsar (50 cleric), Tsaritsa (50 Mage)
    Guides: 51 Bladedancer, Bloodstalker, Nightblade
    DPS Rogue <Trinity>
    5/8 ID; HK Conqueror

  11. #11
    Plane Touched NzFox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gyle View Post
    None the less, all of these changes are intended to affect PvE only. They are meant to minimize PvP impact, but i honestly dont think any of these changes would noticeably break PvP. Might require some tweaks, but honestly they are going to have to make a decision at some point if this is a PvE game with PvP options or a PvP game with raid content, because they can't keep both perfectly balanced, and their attempts to do so tend to break both.
    they just need to give up on one table for pvp and pve. Work on a different table for it or something, damage/heals/defences should just work a little differently when vs another player in pvp (when both flagged maybe?) same basic effect, just different value.

    in saying that the new ranking has worked well fixed a lot of the 'omg OP nerf class X' cries which where just due to gear

  12. #12
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NzFox View Post
    they just need to give up on one table for pvp and pve. Work on a different table for it or something, damage/heals/defences should just work a little differently when vs another player in pvp (when both flagged maybe?) same basic effect, just different value.

    in saying that the new ranking has worked well fixed a lot of the 'omg OP nerf class X' cries which where just due to gear
    This might be a really good idea. Reducing damage of certain abilities for pvp only will really take the gloves off for pve builds. I think that's one of the main reasons why Mage and Warrior pve dps is ahead.
    I rite a gooded guide for rouges.

    NB-Sin Guide - http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...-sin-spec.html

  13. #13
    Plane Touched Mgrave66's Avatar
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    Bd changes are fine, but . . .

    Add an armor penetration skill in BD

    Work the coefficeints some to make BD not rely on rythmic abilities to do any kind of real dps
    Repine

  14. #14
    RIFT Guide Writer Gyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mgrave66 View Post
    Work the coefficeints some to make BD not rely on rythmic abilities to do any kind of real dps
    But that's the entire point of BD.
    Hastati (50 warrior), Tsar (50 cleric), Tsaritsa (50 Mage)
    Guides: 51 Bladedancer, Bloodstalker, Nightblade
    DPS Rogue <Trinity>
    5/8 ID; HK Conqueror

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    Rift Master Fudge's Avatar
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    I am liking the sith inquisitor :P
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