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Thread: Bard Suggestion-> No QQ here

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple Shikamari's Avatar
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    Default Bard Suggestion-> No QQ here

    Yes Bard is tedious. Yes we all laugh at noob bards who qq. The truth is in every 20 man at least 20% of the rogues are asked to play Bard. 1 in 5. Something needs to change because as a class lead it becomes a nightmare deciding who has to take one for the team.

    Suggestion #1- Motif refreshing
    Mashing 5 buttons every 20 seconds is not only tedious, but for god's sakes we're running out of buttons. The problem isn't with initial application, but throughout the fight it's a chore at best. Please give bards a talent or option to utilize one of our buttons to refresh the duration of all Motifs back to full. Perhaps hitting a Power Chord with a 20s cooldown refreshes them? Maybe even using a bard finisher will do the trick? Ticks of Cadence adding time? Something.

    Suggestion #2- Lessen the Motif Strain
    Perhaps an easier notion would be to combine Motifs allowing for less buttons, and having longer base durations. Take us down to three with a talented 1m duration (30s base).

    Suggestion #3- Explanation, Combinations and a Slight Buff
    As #2 suggested combining Motifs, here is my input. Presently raids have only 1 person who can provide a flat +5% damage buff to the raid; Beastmasters. They sacrifice their dps and manage a pet so we can all perform better. Also the current AP/SP doesn't scale very well. The suggested healing buff isn't all that significant tbh. An average dps would tick for 250hp. The average bard would tick for 350hp. A tank would tick for ~750hp.

    Motifs- 30s base duration, talented up to 1m
    Motif of Tenacity- 5% damage reduction and 5% bonus damage dealt
    Motif of Focus- 5% AP / SP / Crit
    Motif of Grandeur- 5% healing received, 5% max health regen per 5 seconds.


    Please only post additions or suggestions, save your flames for warfronts.

  2. #2
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shikamari View Post
    Suggestion #1- Motif refreshing
    Mashing 5 buttons every 20 seconds is not only tedious, but for god's sakes we're running out of buttons. The problem isn't with initial application, but throughout the fight it's a chore at best. Please give bards a talent or option to utilize one of our buttons to refresh the duration of all Motifs back to full. Perhaps hitting a Power Chord with a 20s cooldown refreshes them? Maybe even using a bard finisher will do the trick? Ticks of Cadence adding time? Something.
    +1 to that.

  3. #3
    Telaran
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    My group has never had trouble deciding who gets to bard. If no one volunteers, the lowest DPS goes bard. This benefits the entire group because not only do we have our top DPS but it encourages people who don't want to bard to either gear up or get a better DPS spec. The last option (if everyone is close in DPS) is to just rotate. It's fair and it benefits the group most.


    As for your suggestions I have one catch-all for the issue with motifs:

    Coda of Enlivenment:
    40 Energy
    Instant
    20 Meter Range

    Plays a Coda that uses Combo Points to extend the duration of active Motifs on all players within range. Duration is increased with more Combo Points. Energy Cost is reduced with more Combo Points.
    1 Point: 6 seconds
    2 Points: 12 seconds
    3 Points: 18 seconds
    4 Points: 24 seconds
    5 Points: 30 seconds

    So, before you reach 0s on your first Motif, you cast the finisher and you're back up. If a player dies or goes out of range, they don't get refreshed. You'd have to recast manually.

  4. #4
    Sword of Telara
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    You want to reduce tedium by having LESS buttons to press! ok I dont get it. Motif refreshing is not tedious, not any more than hitting:

    Dmg spell1
    Dmg spell2
    Dmg spell3
    Dmg spell4
    Dmg spell5

    for a dps spec. Just because they are buffs not dmg spells does not make them any less interesting to press the buton.

    I suggest you spend less time recruiting dps rogues, and recruit some bards. You seam to be recruiting dps players and then forcing them to go support. You could just recruit some support players and let them do their job....


    Asfor the above posters finsiher idea. NO. You want the bard to have to track who has up to date motifs on them via the raid frames somehow? lol.

    I'l like bards more mobile, but thats all really. Buff refreshing is part of the spec, live with it.
    Last edited by zetans; 11-12-2011 at 03:55 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega326 View Post
    While we're making wild accusations without any backup, I'm going to go ahead and say that you are a 12 year old horse named Suzy that lives in a crater on the moon... and I am absolutely correct.

  5. #5
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    I wouldn't mind seeing some bard consolidation. Making 1 motif give 5% crit and the AP bonus. Make another motif give 5% dmg reduc, 5% increase healing. And then have the HoT motif. Even knocking it down from 5 to 3 would be noticeable to bards. I also wouldn't mind seeing things consolidated like the dmg debuffs. It wouldn't be game breaking if it 1 finisher increased non-physical damage by 7% and physical damage by 5%, instead of having them as 2 separate finishers. They're going in the right direction with making all 3 fanfaires buffable at the same time. But they could cut the middle man and make 1 fanfaire that grants the bonus of all 3. It's nothing you could implement sloppily but I think running along the thought of minor consolidation to lessen tedium wouldn't be too harmful. Could also open room to make bards a little more interesting instead of having countless abilities take up spots that in a perfect world would all be active at the same time. Could even decently increase motif durations. Lots of things could be done to lessen tedium without making the role game breaking or too insane.
    Last edited by Violacea; 11-12-2011 at 04:00 PM.

  6. #6
    Rift Disciple
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    Sonnet of Destruction:
    Increases AP/SP by 150, Increases Crit Chance by 10% lasts 15s, 5min CD.

    Sonnet of Freedom:
    Reduces cast times/energy/mana cost by 100%, increases movement speed by 30% lasts 15s (doesn't stack with competance or fervor), 5min CD.

    Sonnet of Vitality:
    Reduces damage taken by 20%, reduces knockback (cast time lengthening) by 100%, last 15s. 5min CD.

    Sonnet of Recovery:
    Heals all allies by 5% of their hp per second, also increases the healing they recieve by 20%, lasnt 15s. 5min CD.

    Sonnet of Encouragement:
    Makes 5 really, really, really, strong (9999 hp) and big critters spawn and make them follow the rogue, last 15s. 5min CD, does not remove motifs.

    Also, when you cast a Sonnet, allies cannot be affected by motifs during that time, also you get a 2 minute debuff where you cannot be affected by sonnets until the debuff wears off.

    Some of the numbers may look big, but if you compare them to warlord cds (which is what i was going for), and the cool down /motif loss it is okay. Also i made the numbers up on the spot.

    What is needed is a way for good bards to shine. Good bards should know when the raid needs them to swap their motifs for a huge boost in one area. At the moment there is no difference between okay bards and godly skilled bards, this is lame.

    Also I am against any [increases in healing or damage] changes. Bards should be a support class, not a damage dealer or a healer.
    Last edited by wingedarr0w; 11-12-2011 at 09:45 PM.

  7. #7
    Rift Disciple Shikamari's Avatar
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    While it seemed that I asked for an increase to healing, I really didn't. I just want a flat 5% max health hot ticking so it scales with the player it affects ;) It honestly would give us maybe an extra 150hps on Sicaron. Certainly not game breaking.

    I love the idea of Sonnets to go along with Flaring Power model, though I'm not sure all of them would make it into game.


    Again, please keep flames to a minimum and only post helpful suggestions or advice

  8. #8
    Telaran
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    Increase Motif Duration (with Talents) to 45 secs.
    Enable 2 Anthems to be up at once.
    Increase bard Mobility (enable Cadence to be usable on the move costs a talent)
    Bard shield a song that surrounds the bard in music making any attack on the bard automatically miss for 4 seconds 2 min cool down. (bard unable to do anything else while in effect Motifs etc continue to do there stuff).
    Ability to change the lute into a flute, hand drum etc.
    Anthem of I want to DPS Increase damage from bard abilities by 25% decrease healing abilities by 25%

    Yours a 45th bored Bard at work.

  9. #9
    Rift Disciple Kakyo's Avatar
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    lower the casttime of the buffs...

    with 1.6 we will be rebuffing hours in raid-encounters.... ;P
    Frostbringer Raid
    ID 5/8
    R40 Rogue Brutwacht EU

  10. #10
    Shadowlander
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    I enjoy Barding in raids, I prefer it to DPS. The only thing I would like changed is allowing us to move while casting Cadence, it'd help when the boss starts moving and I'm ready to throw in my Deadly Strike but my charge is still on cooldown.

  11. #11
    Telaran Noxanna's Avatar
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    Sorry for this being semi off topic but I just reactivated and I'm curious how bard pvp is. I'm guessing if pve is tedious rebuffing as the majority of your time, pvp not so good either?

  12. #12
    Rift Disciple Shikamari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zetans View Post
    You want to reduce tedium by having LESS buttons to press! ok I dont get it. Motif refreshing is not tedious, not any more than hitting:

    Dmg spell1
    Dmg spell2
    Dmg spell3
    Dmg spell4
    Dmg spell5

    ....useless babble...

    I'l like bards more mobile, but thats all really. Buff refreshing is part of the spec, live with it.
    The problem with your logic is 90% of the Dmg spells have short cooldowns thus can be macrod together without hassle. If motifs had a 10s cooldown it would be another story all together.

    So 1.6 in just a few hours here... I'm looking forward to Fanfare changes ;) anyone else?

    PS- Thanks for the lack of anything constructive to add to this thread.

  13. #13
    Ascendant
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    The problem with suggestions to just increase Motif duration to something like 1/2 minutes is it's not going to leave the player anything to actually do. All you'll be doing instead of refreshing Motifs is spamming Cadence a lot more. The Bard needs more to do, period. If something like that was done it would have to be a part of a larger set of changes.

    I love the "Sonnet" suggestion that was made. Powerful buffs but you have to think carefully about when you use them. A Cleanse and combat rezz would also be good fits for the soul.

    I'd like to see some (those which only give flat buffs rather than % based ones like Fanfares) of the Bard buffs scale with gear in a similar way to, say, Purifier Cleric shields do.

    I think the Fanfares are a bit silly to be honest. When you get down to it all fully talented Bard Fanfares are is a +12 stat buff to the raid. That just seems really weak for a Support specialist class to me. I'm wondering if it might not be overdoing it to have Fanfares stack fully with other buffs.
    Last edited by Kedon; 11-16-2011 at 04:56 AM.

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