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Thread: How to Balance rogues

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    pro
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    Default How to Balance rogues

    Instead of them getting a buff from stealthed attacks make all attacks while stealth reduced by 10% for 5seconds. This solve a ton of there stun lock killing. Please remove vampiric munitions completly or at least reduce its rogue healing capibilty. And make marksman damage reduced when moving and BOOOM rogues are balanced.

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    Plane Touched
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    MM damage is reduced while moving.
    "Overall we want the various callings to be competitive with each other in their comparative roles. There isnít a mandate that Rogues do more damage than Warriors or that Mages be the best ranged damage in the game. Ideally we would like to see players with equivalent skill, gear, planar attunement, buffs etc be equally effective at damage, tanking or healing." - Kervik

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nekonix View Post
    MM damage is reduced while moving.
    how is that?

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    Assassin without burst damage our of stealth is useless. Who cares about vampiric. And we do more damage standing still. So try umm moving away or los.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pro View Post
    how is that?
    This is how.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irria View Post
    Assassin without burst damage our of stealth is useless. Who cares about vampiric. And we do more damage standing still. So try umm moving away or los.
    i dont any other class that can steal heals and make someone crumble in seconds.

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    Remove the stun lock with cooldowns.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leslol View Post
    This too

    Seriously, if you force a MM rogue to move around (and by extension force them to use instacasts only) they do pathetic damage. All they're good for is purges, silence, and spamming Fan Out, which is pretty bad at the moment with the internal cooldown on munitions on AOE attacks, and will be even worse when it's changed so AOE proportionately scales down the proc chance based on the number of targets.

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    Oh look! Another complainer who didn't even bother to look up the class he is whining about being nerfed.

    There is no buff from being stealthed, just different abilities that are available. Also take into account that three souls have stealth, and only two can get perma stealth with >20 points in the tree.

    Stunlocks are 3 seconds long, maximum. Unless you're rank 0, you won't die in 3 seconds to a rogue. While we're talking about stunlocks, let's nerf sheep, shall we? And fear? I mean, surely 7+ second long CCs are overpowered if a 3 second stun that requires 2 GCDs to accomplish is overpowered...

    Vampiric Munitions is already being made to be almost impossible to apply on AoE.


    As for losing damage while moving, the others already explained that to you.


    As I've said dozens of times: before you complain about a class, learn to play that class. Especially if you're going to come make a post about balance. Because if you don't know squat about that class, and you try to balance it, you're just hurting everyone and giving Trion the wrong ideas.

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    Has anyone else noticed the irony of OP's name?
    "Overall we want the various callings to be competitive with each other in their comparative roles. There isnít a mandate that Rogues do more damage than Warriors or that Mages be the best ranged damage in the game. Ideally we would like to see players with equivalent skill, gear, planar attunement, buffs etc be equally effective at damage, tanking or healing." - Kervik

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    Quote Originally Posted by Willovain View Post
    Oh look! Another complainer who didn't even bother to look up the class he is whining about being nerfed.

    There is no buff from being stealthed, just different abilities that are available. Also take into account that three souls have stealth, and only two can get perma stealth with >20 points in the tree.

    Stunlocks are 3 seconds long, maximum. Unless you're rank 0, you won't die in 3 seconds to a rogue. While we're talking about stunlocks, let's nerf sheep, shall we? And fear? I mean, surely 7+ second long CCs are overpowered if a 3 second stun that requires 2 GCDs to accomplish is overpowered...

    Vampiric Munitions is already being made to be almost impossible to apply on AoE.


    As for losing damage while moving, the others already explained that to you.


    As I've said dozens of times: before you complain about a class, learn to play that class. Especially if you're going to come make a post about balance. Because if you don't know squat about that class, and you try to balance it, you're just hurting everyone and giving Trion the wrong ideas.
    The skills that boost damage by 20% for a few seconds thats what i would call a buff since it can only be activated from stealth not to mention the skills that multiply your attack power by 150%. You guys hit like trucks all ready and no one in a heal spec can survive you because you cast one skill that lets you get the same amount of heals as them as you dps them to hell. Its obvious that a calling is OP when the only calling that can kill it or complaining about it is another rogue!

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    Quote Originally Posted by pro View Post
    The skills that boost damage by 20% for a few seconds thats what i would call a buff since it can only be activated from stealth not to mention the skills that multiply your attack power by 150%. You guys hit like trucks all ready and no one in a heal spec can survive you because you cast one skill that lets you get the same amount of heals as them as you dps them to hell. Its obvious that a calling is OP when the only calling that can kill it or complaining about it is another rogue!
    LOL are we playing same game?

    You are talking about Assassin, and assassin has NO CHANCE of killing anyone same rank, despite he opens with stealth

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    Quote Originally Posted by pro View Post
    The skills that boost damage by 20% for a few seconds thats what i would call a buff since it can only be activated from stealth not to mention the skills that multiply your attack power by 150%. You guys hit like trucks all ready and no one in a heal spec can survive you because you cast one skill that lets you get the same amount of heals as them as you dps them to hell. Its obvious that a calling is OP when the only calling that can kill it or complaining about it is another rogue!
    Or, you could look at a soul calculator and learn that you're full of ****.

    "The skills that boost damage by 20%" of which you speak, is a Nightblade ability, which no Nightblade in his right mind would be using, because Nightblade does not fight from of stealth. You know how I said Nightblade doesn't get perma-stealth? Yeah...

    No skill multiplies your attack power by 150%. Most skills increase the damage contribution from attack power by 150%, which is a pretty standard thing for most classes. It y'know, gives a reason to upgrade your gear.

    Whether we hit like trucks or not is completely subjective, (We don't, but we could argue that until we both die of asphyxiation. You'll never believe me, and I'll know that you're wrong.) but I will say this: rogues require 5 combo points in order to perform a high damage finisher. That means that in order to "hit you like a truck," we would have to spend 6 seconds minimum, assuming you're bring stunlocked. If you were stunlocked, you would only be stunned for 3 of those seconds. If you cannot save yourself in 3 seconds, when a rogue hasn't even unloaded most of his damage, (and take into account, in order to stun you, the rogue sacrificed a lot of DPS to do it) the person you should be blaming is that person you see when you look in a mirror.

    Now as for healing. Depending on which spec you are talking about, there are a few possibilities. One possibility, is Enduring Brew, which generally heals the rogue for about 1.5k on a 1 minute cooldown. Yes, they can use it instantly, but they have to stop hitting you to do it. I think you might be talking about Leeching Poison here, but I know you can't be, because it only has a 20% chance to heal the rogue for 69 hit points, and it costs them dps from another poison. A HoT would be more effective. You could also be talking about Vampiric Munitions or Fel Blades here as well, which only heal them for half of what you are being healed for (I am assuming you're a healer). Yes, it is rather brutal, but it's been proven numerous times that it can be healed through, and to be honest, what's a healer doing fighting a rogue alone anyway? That's exactly what the rogue wants. There is also Twilight Transcendence, which heals the rogue for 50% of his health over time, but that's on a 2 minute CD. Again, go do your research. You're trying to make some magical Assassin, Nightblade, Bladedancer, Riftstalker, Infiltrator hybrid. For the record, that's not possible. In case you were going to say "YA! DAT IZ WUT I WUZ TAWKING ABOWT!"

    There are not enough points at level 51 to get all of those abilities in one spec. You can either get the Assassin abilities or the Nightblade abilities. You cannot get both, there's just not enough points for it. I am going to tread on dangerous waters here, and assume that you are whining about Nightblade here, and to that I say purge them, or get away from them. The spec is literally designed to kill bads like you. No worse than a Lingering Wo- errr, ANY warrior. The difference is that a rogue has to choose between Assassin or Nightblade, they cannot have the best of both worlds.

    Oh, and you're wrong, but I've just made that blatantly obvious, now haven't I? Go do your research, admit that you're terribly mistaken, or admit that you're bad. While the latter two might be true, if you did the first, you might actually be able to contribute something sentient to the argument. To me, it just sounds like you're butt-hurt that rogues can actually make you think before you just spam the heal button now. What's the matter? You miss being able to heal through the rogue hitting you while you water jet him to death?
    Last edited by Willovain; 11-12-2011 at 02:24 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Willovain View Post
    Oh look! Another complainer who didn't even bother to look up the class he is whining about being nerfed.
    There is no buff from being stealthed, just different abilities that are available.
    http://rift.zam.com/en/ability/50000...oak-and-Dagger

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    He was discussing a physical buff, one that doesn't exist in the specs he was describing. I didn't think to bring up Cloak and Dagger. Doesn't mean he is right, just that he took a shot in the dark and managed to find one thing. Doesn't refute any of the other evidence I've provided as to why he doesn't know what he's talking about. Nice strawman attempt though.

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