Are there anymore Rogue Changes planned for 1.6 or 1.6 hotfixes?

[Spungey]

So as the title states, I'm just sitting here in frozen thought just wondering what, if anything else is being changed.

As we all know our Top DPS spec was nerfed on PTS which wasn't ahead by much, and now I sit here wondering where to go. We now have our gimmick specs that require us to shift every 10 seconds to reach maximum output. This isn't that bad of an idea, but where it lies is where it is flawed. 20 points into our 1 an only tank soul that should be filled with mitigation and deflect improvements. To me, that just seems like bad design.

So now with current changes on test shard, we have 3 dps specs that will keep us raiders our raid spots but those seriously don't *FLASH* out to me as the true Rogue meaning.

Where the issue was! Our 51mm, yeah it was a little far fetched for a ranged build so I do agree with the drop to it's dps. Not by as much as what is happening though. Just the change to the synergy crystal would of made it more in line with other callings.

Where the issue sits NOW! Our rogue melee builds. A good bit of an under achiever..Plain and Simple. They need to be brought up to compensate. So this is why I am asking if there are any improvements coming. Numerous people have done countless hours of testing to see what melee build will do what. And imo and lots of others, there just not performing like they should. You guys know it, we know it.

March 1st, 2011.. The day I picked up the game, installed it and got to the character selection screen. I looked at each of the classes, reading each soul and finally picked rogue. I knew what the rogue meant. I knew(or thought) it had an established meaning in the MMO world. From patch to patch, it seems as though the Rift Rogue has lost its way. Each calling has an identity, however I believe you have tarnished the rogues. It doesn't perform in any area as well or better than another calling. Which the case seems, for each other calling..they have something they excel in.

All in all, many have spoken..but none seem to be heard!

[Adnoz]

RANGER
* Quick Shot: Fixed a bug with the first tick of Quick Shot so that it no longer triggers poisons, weapon enchantments, or Munitions effects.

RANGER
* Quick Shot: Fixed a bug with the first tick of Quick Shot

RANGER
* Quick Shot: Fixed a bug

If nightblade beats warrior DPS, it will be a bug that nerfs puncture double proccing poisons and trinkets, it will be a bug that you can channel dusk to dawn for only 1 second for the buff, it will be a bug that bla bla bla bla bla. I am absolutely not pleased.

[Mayi]

I'm sure it's been heard... lots. There's a ton of threads about it.

What I read into it is that warriors are meant to do more dps in melee - aoe and single target. I'm not sure where we'll stand after the mage buffs for rdps.

I've found devs usually don't reply to threads like this and state their balance targets, otherwise it gets regurgitated over and over again in the forums. Once a dev says, 'warriors have higher dps potential' it would just create a flood of QQ threads.

Opinions will differ on what's balanced or not, but devs have spoken. There's no other conclusion to draw from the patch notes. Even if a spec does parse higher, it'll get quickly adjusted down.

I don't think there'll be any more rogue patch notes, and don't expect any rogue buffs in 1.6.

[bitnine]

Latest PTS changes has all Sin finishers apply Expose Weakness.

That sorta caught my eye.

[Adnoz]

Latest PTS changes has all Sin finishers apply Expose Weakness.

That sorta caught my eye.

known for some time now.

[Spungey]

Yeh, I do believe it's about that time to go game somewhere else. I find this constant changing of so many abilities throughout all callings is just turning me away. The constant updates to certain classes to make them comparable, and then nerfing them. It's one big rotation. Where there just trying to satisfy one calling at a time. They never seem to be able to work on multiple classes at once with knowledgeable and precise fine tuning. It's a small increase to this, then an ax chop 3 weeks later.

This game did give me some fun times, but basically..it didn't live up to the hype like I thought it would. Only reason I've been around now was for raiding and there's lots of people who do that. so, idk..maybe my next game will get it right.

[DiamondDog]

go game somewhere else.

You obviously do not understand MMORPG's and virtual worlds. Every-single-mmorpg has changes, patches and buff/nerfs.

[Warhaz]

You obviously do not understand MMORPG's and virtual worlds. Every-single-mmorpg has changes, patches and buff/nerfs.

The rapidity of the said nerfs is however a concern.

Further the said causes/reasons for the nerfs are not *really* that game breaking.

Sure, MM probably had it coming, I'm surprised at the speed it arrived, but so be it.

However the fact that:
1) DPS Warriors are STILL competitive with MM un-nerfed is troublesome
2) No melee based rogue build, or builds has been buffed sufficiently to really be a challenge to parses in any substantial or quantitative manner. Nerf the MM but then where are rogues going to be competitive?? Their melee builds ARE NOT where they should be. Once again Plate wearers with a ton more health will surpass the rogue.

Done get me wrong, after 1.6 rogues are still MUCH better off than they were pre 1.5. Thank god for that....

But, the community outcry on how the game balances are implemented is just mindbogglingly insane.
Prediction, DPS rankings in 1.6 will be:
1) Mages
2) Warriors
3) Rogues
4) Daylight
5) Clerics

Many of the community balance gripes appear to be PvP based, which in itself is stupid. The game is an PvE MMO first, PvP an optional activity within that game set.

The sooner they further seperate PvE and PvP mechanics the sooner we will all see greater ease of our concerns.

Most complaints seem to be from PvPers who dont know how to:
* Close distance
* Increase distance
* Avoid control effects

[wickede]

If nightblade beats warrior DPS, it will be a bug that nerfs puncture double proccing poisons and trinkets, it will be a bug that you can channel dusk to dawn for only 1 second for the buff, it will be a bug that bla bla bla bla bla. I am absolutely not pleased.

this is an issue every game has, and some of the rogues are to blame. the reason warriors aren't getting nerfed is for the most part the good ones aren't vocal on public forums or talking about how they all use the same spec. they have the mediocre players speaking for them, unlike rogues who seem to have a need to post everything and share our methods publically so it looks like we are a much better class than we actually are. as somebody who has played MM for pvp pre 1.5 and was happy that it was viable in pve for 1.6, these nerfs are just way too far. the QS is debatable on whether it was a bug or not, it depends on how they wanted it to be coded but yes, lots of other abilities work just like it. changing that is a big enough dps loss already, why nerf the 4 piece HK crystal when the majority of the community won't see it anyway and those who will see it will be competing in dps with warriors who will just blow us away with a 4 piece.

[Gery]

I am not that worried about the pure single target dps of melee rogues although it doesn't look that promising at the moment. However I am very worried about their lack of practicality. You always end up with builds that have at least one from the following list: no interrupt, no gap closer, very bad aoe, forced positioning, slow target switching, damage based on dots, no ranged attacks at all or just a 0 point swift shot. The more of the list you avoid the worse dps you do.

You might be able to parse decently on dummy or sicaron but that's about it.

[wickede]

I am not that worried about the pure single target dps of melee rogues although it doesn't look that promising at the moment. However I am very worried about their lack of practicality. You always end up with builds that have at least one from the following list: no interrupt, no gap closer, very bad aoe, forced positioning, slow target switching, damage based on dots, no ranged attacks at all or just a 0 point swift shot. The more of the list you avoid the worse dps you do.

You might be able to parse decently on dummy or sicaron but that's about it.

this is exactly my concern, our top single dps specs will have no interupts or utility at all, and some of them won't be able to be used for certain encounters because of teleports. on top of this, our aoe dps is a joke compared to every other class, unless you make a sab for just aoe, which will lack in every other aspect.

[Galibier]

I wish the Beta forums were still up. Back in the day someone posted a link to an interview where the warrior dev and another class dev were talking about PvP. The Warrior dev was actually quoted as saying "I don't like rogues." I am still doing google searches to try and find it but it would explain a lot. I am a primary bard but I did like the occassional flexing of my officer stats by saying "Sally u bard tonight". It didn't hurt I am also one of the better dpsers in the guild as well. Unless something changes though I may ne too depressed to dps tbh and when barding officially burns me out (I find it tedious as heck having come from the pressure posjtion of OT Shaman in EQ2) I will likely just stop playing. Makes me a sad panda because over all I love this game but this junk is starting to leave a bad taste in my mouth.

After 10 years in MMOs I m used to the ebb and flow of nerfs and buffs. Typically though you don't see them in 2 month cycles especially following as extensive a testing phase as we saw in 1.5. It's annoying in the extreme.

[Phantom D]

If the game to you is just Numbers on DPS meter, then you never really played it.

[Zyzyx]

Ailion needs to either get these MM nerfs reversed or dramatically change assasin/nb to be less reliant on DoTs in the next week or so.

Numbers on meters are not everything ,but they are good measurements of a calling/class's capabilities. If one calling is consistently behind in all areas it makes people feel bad. People should have fun in a game.


EDIT: 2000'th post!!!11

[livnthedream]

Ailion needs to either get these MM nerfs reversed or dramatically change assasin/nb to be less reliant on DoTs in the next week or so.

Numbers on meters are not everything ,but they are good measurements of a calling/class's capabilities. If one calling is consistently behind in all areas it makes people feel bad. People should have fun in a game.


EDIT: 2000'th post!!!11

why the sudden dot hate? you never complained about dots with sabdancer and thats where a very large amount of its damage came from. just because you hate fiery spike doesnt mean dots are bad.

@op where do you honestly want to go then? wows numbers are even further apart percentage wise, swtor has already stated that they plan on balancing around 5% (which btw is usually more than the current differences in rift) gw2 isnt going to have raiding at all, and from what i have seen tsw doesnt appear to have any raiding content either. while i understand that we are taking a minor nerf, we are still far from broken.