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Thread: Rogue Suggestion: Pls Add a Crippling and Necrotic Poisons for rogues

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    Plane Walker DiamondDog's Avatar
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    Default Rogue Suggestion: Pls Add a Crippling and Necrotic Poisons for rogues

    I've played many other games that include two types of poisons for rogues and I'd like to suggest two new types for rogues:

    Crippling Poison - Reduces movement speed by 30% for 5 seconds

    Necrotic Poison - Reduces healing by 30% for 10 seconds

    I was looking at the talent trees last night and noticed that with many classes (mages, clerics, etc) you have the same type of ability in many trees. This allows you to vary up your souls. With rogues, we are forced to play MM and Nightblade souls for the heal debuffs and such and I think it would allow players to have a varied playstyle and not have "everyone" as a MM if you created some additional poisons.

    PS. Please keep in mind, that in order to use these, rogues would have to make a trade off , ie , not using their leeching (healing) poison or their additional "damage/crit" poisons. So it's not a pure buff to a rogue, it' just for a more varied option of playing styles and maybe choosing other souls besides MM/NB.
    Last edited by DiamondDog; 11-08-2011 at 05:33 AM.
    Rogue: 0/0 HK or any other PVE content. Over 120+ days /played in PVP content exclusively as an Assassin. (yes, 2800 hours)
    Yes, I know MM and NB rule. No, I don't want to switch to a MM. Yes, I know they are the best. No, again, I'd rather improve Assassins.

  2. #2
    RIFT Guide Writer Zyzyx's Avatar
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    heal debuffs are in nb/inf/mm

    assasin and blade dancer get snares like that

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

  3. #3
    Rift Disciple Xahz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiamondDog View Post
    I've played many other games that include two types of poisons for rogues and I'd like to suggest two new types for rogues:

    Crippling Poison - Reduces movement speed by 30% for 5 seconds

    Necrotic Poison - Reduces healing by 30% for 10 seconds

    I was looking at the talent trees last night and noticed that with many classes (mages, clerics, etc) you have the same type of ability in many trees. This allows you to vary up your souls. With rogues, we are forced to play MM and Nightblade souls for the heal debuffs and such and I think it would allow players to have a varied playstyle and not have "everyone" as a MM if you created some additional poisons.

    PS. Please keep in mind, that in order to use these, rogues would have to make a trade off , ie , not using their leeching (healing) poison or their additional "damage/crit" poisons. So it's not a pure buff to a rogue, it' just for a more varied option of playing styles and maybe choosing other souls besides MM/NB.
    Assassin does more than enough damage, it doesn't really need a healing debuff.

    Bladedancer...well BD needs a hell of a lot more than a debuff, let's put it what way

  4. #4
    Plane Walker DiamondDog's Avatar
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    What is your assassin build Zyzyx??
    Rogue: 0/0 HK or any other PVE content. Over 120+ days /played in PVP content exclusively as an Assassin. (yes, 2800 hours)
    Yes, I know MM and NB rule. No, I don't want to switch to a MM. Yes, I know they are the best. No, again, I'd rather improve Assassins.

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    Plane Walker DiamondDog's Avatar
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    heal debuffs are in nb/inf/mm

    assasin and blade dancer get snares like that
    Yes. I think everyone who has played a rogue for 1600 hours knows who gets the heal debuffs and who gets snares.

    I logged onto my cleric, P2/P3 gear and decided to spec out like Ojiichan and fight a good friend of mine who is P8 rogue. He fought me with several different specs and my cleric was able to beat him. Anecdotal no doubt, but keep in mind that I barely know how to play the cleric, had only about 3 minutes to set up some keys and try it out. My cleric has blues, doesn't have a synergy crystal... yet I can beat an assassin and I beat his RS as well. (No, he doesn't suck, but feel free to think he does)

    What about Sabateur- it's a completely dead soul. Sure, some newbs may play it but it's rarely played because it sucks. Assassins, they do decent damage, but can NOT out damage a 1v1 spec'd healer. Infiltrator, really- who goes super high in Infiltrator? You gimp yourself.

    I'm not saying boost MM or NB, but sometimes you get tired of always playing a NB/RS build you know. You want to try out a Sab, Inf, Asn, BD but the other souls , as you point out, do NOT have a viable way to kill certain classes imho. IMHO.
    Rogue: 0/0 HK or any other PVE content. Over 120+ days /played in PVP content exclusively as an Assassin. (yes, 2800 hours)
    Yes, I know MM and NB rule. No, I don't want to switch to a MM. Yes, I know they are the best. No, again, I'd rather improve Assassins.

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    51Sin/15Inf can solo healers.

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    Rift Chaser Octavian2011's Avatar
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    IMO sin really needs a slight heal debuff - 30% sounds reasonable. Anathama is easy to cleanse and has a very long CD to reapply. It's only useful if the target isn't paying attention to their debuffs.


    GSB 5/5 RoS 4/4 GP 4/4 DH 4/4 RotP 4/4 HK 10/11
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    Rift Chaser Octavian2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottyAj2 View Post
    51Sin/15Inf can solo healers.
    Sure if the healer is bad or low ranked. It's almost impossible for a 51 sin/15 inf to take down a well played P8 healer. A 30% heal debuff poison would tip the scale slightly in the sin's favor ... slightly.


    GSB 5/5 RoS 4/4 GP 4/4 DH 4/4 RotP 4/4 HK 10/11
    Pvp rank 8 Rogue - Age of Aggression.
    www.resultgaming.com

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    Rift Disciple Xahz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Octavian2011 View Post
    Sure if the healer is bad or low ranked. It's almost impossible for a 51 sin/15 inf to take down a well played P8 healer. A 30% heal debuff poison would tip the scale slightly in the sin's favor ... slightly.
    Not almost impossible, it is impossible.

    But no rogue spec can kill a p8 healer. Hell, I'm not sure any spec from any calling can

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    RIFT Guide Writer Zyzyx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiamondDog View Post
    What is your assassin build Zyzyx??
    I don't use assasin because melee as a rogue doesn't seem viable to me.

    If I had to pick any assasin build though I'd do 51sin/15mm or the build that one guy posted which is like 32sin/16-18nb/rest riftstalker. He had a cool video too someone find it. Oh also never use it if you are not just in a 1v1 situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

  11. #11
    Rift Master Carthoris's Avatar
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    Passive snares (which is what the crippling poison would be) are a really bad thing, unless your goal is to ensure that the other team is under DR immunity 100% of the time.

    I also don't see how you can say that other callings have "identical talents in many trees" and rogues are somehow lacking, then follow it up immediately with a mention of two souls containing an identical heal debuff. The only talents that are copied more than once are the taunts, as far as I recall.

    Healing debuffs are monstrously important in PvP, and should definitely require something of a decision to pick up. I'm certain that 51 sin isn't capable of picking them up by design, because just the thought of Serpent Strike + Constant Heal Debuff + Deadly Dance/Weapon Barrage/Side Steps/Shadow Shift or Shadow Stalk or Adhesive Bomb (you want it in the sin tree, right? that frees up some points) makes me drool a little.
    Last edited by Carthoris; 11-09-2011 at 09:08 AM.

  12. #12
    Plane Walker DiamondDog's Avatar
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    Passive snares (which is what the crippling poison would be) are a really bad thing, unless your goal is to ensure that the other team is under DR immunity 100% of the time.

    I also don't see how you can say that other callings have "identical talents in many trees" and rogues are somehow lacking, then follow it up immediately with a mention of two souls containing an identical heal debuff. The only talents that are copied more than once are the taunts, as far as I recall.

    Healing debuffs are monstrously important in PvP, and should definitely require something of a decision to pick up. I'm certain that 51 sin isn't capable of picking them up by design, because just the thought of Serpent Strike + Constant Heal Debuff + Deadly Dance/Weapon Barrage/Side Steps/Shadow Shift or Shadow Stalk or Adhesive Bomb (you want it in the sin tree, right? that frees up some points) makes me drool a little.
    First, and most importantly, LOOK at what others are saying.... and what I'm saying "But no rogue spec can kill a p8 healer." This was the impetus for my post. A P8 healer that can run away from you and heal non stop is extremely dangerous and IMHO near impossible to kill.


    I also don't see how you can say that other callings have "identical talents in many trees" and rogues are somehow lacking, then follow it up immediately with a mention of two souls containing an identical heal debuff.
    When I go in to spec my healer, I find many, many, duplicate abilities depending on which tree I pick. With rogues, some trees also have some duplicates but imho not as much as clerics do- but ONE area that is NOT duplicated is heal debuffs- except for 2-3 out of all our souls. If I play Bard, NO heal debuff. If I play Assassin, NO heal debuff. There are others as well. So the idea of having a small heal debuff poison works for souls that do NOT get a heal debuff.

    Healing debuffs are monstrously important in PvP, and should definitely require something of a decision to pick up.
    EXACTLY! MONSTROUSLY important...and yet some rogue setups don't have it. A poison debuff would help assassins and souls that utilize assassin to have a short heal debuff, at the expense of OTHER positives. However, I'm totally cool with it being an ability high in the Bard, Asn, BD trees as well.

    I'm certain that 51 sin isn't capable of picking them up by design, because just the thought of Serpent Strike + Constant Heal Debuff + Deadly Dance/Weapon Barrage/Side Steps/Shadow Shift or Shadow Stalk or Adhesive Bomb (you want it in the sin tree, right? that frees up some points) makes me drool a little.
    You are correct on that it's not possible with 51 Sin, which is not one I play, and not with Full Bard either, but keep this in mind...again... Assassins can NOT kill a P8 healer spec'd healer either. So while you might find that it makes that soul "stronger", right now it's "way too weak" to kill a cleric. When I fought Ojiichan, I died constantly. I have since gone back after him with several different builds and it's in-sane to try and kill him (kudos to P8 full healer). It made me realize that there was two reasons for this. First, if you cannot stay on him, as a rogue, you cannot heal yourself in the least. Second, you can't output enough dps to overcome their healing.

    With MM you can. With MM, it's extremely easy (or I should say much easier) to kill the P8 cleric. NB, easier too. ANY other souls, it's difficult imho. My favorite build doesn't have a debuff but I do have use of some poisons (not all)... and think a few more poisons would be ideal to allowing me to balance my soul out more.

    If you play a NB/RS, you will think nothing is needed. If you play MM, same thing. If you play a combo that doesn't have a debuff, you will be /facepalm at P8 clerics.
    Rogue: 0/0 HK or any other PVE content. Over 120+ days /played in PVP content exclusively as an Assassin. (yes, 2800 hours)
    Yes, I know MM and NB rule. No, I don't want to switch to a MM. Yes, I know they are the best. No, again, I'd rather improve Assassins.

  13. #13
    Plane Walker DiamondDog's Avatar
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    My favorite build is the BD/x/x build. I play MM sometimes, and RGR sometimes as well.
    Rogue: 0/0 HK or any other PVE content. Over 120+ days /played in PVP content exclusively as an Assassin. (yes, 2800 hours)
    Yes, I know MM and NB rule. No, I don't want to switch to a MM. Yes, I know they are the best. No, again, I'd rather improve Assassins.

  14. #14
    Plane Walker DiamondDog's Avatar
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    I don't use assasin because melee as a rogue doesn't seem viable to me.
    Right. I mean, they aren't viable. No heal debuff. Yes, immediate burst damage but not enough to take out a cleric before they can heal. Not enough to take out warriors before they demolish you and not enough to kill a chloro-lock or the new FOTM DOM specs.

    Yet, he says they are 'more than enough powerful.' Yes and no. Not against the FOTM souls they aren't. They are heavily position dependent and stealth dependent and are not going to do AS well in full open wf combat situations as my BD or a NB spec (or ranged specs!!)

    Blade Dancer, which is the main part of my build, is in the same boat. I play Bard often and they are not worth much other than support and Sab, which WAS my favorite build, just suck.

    I'd like to have some increased variation in what I play. I dont want ANY rogue soul to be overpowered. I just want opportunities to kill a P8 cleric is all.
    Rogue: 0/0 HK or any other PVE content. Over 120+ days /played in PVP content exclusively as an Assassin. (yes, 2800 hours)
    Yes, I know MM and NB rule. No, I don't want to switch to a MM. Yes, I know they are the best. No, again, I'd rather improve Assassins.

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