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Thread: Saboteur Combo Point Generation

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
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    Default Saboteur Combo Point Generation

    It recently occurred to me that every rogue soul except saboteur has an ability to generate multiple combo points in one attack. Given that sab is supposed to be a burst damage sort of soul, I'm a bit confused as to why they have no such ability (yes, there's rapid setup, but that's more of a trinket type ability, being on a minute cool down, and doesn't really seem to fill the same role). I think something fairly far up the tree to give a small (maybe 5-10 percent?) chance to generate 2 combo points/charges with a reasonable internal cool down would be a nice way to deal with what I'm seeing as an imbalance here in the ability to build combo points at the same pace as the other souls.
    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Shadowlander
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    By the way, while I found no other threads on this, I could have missed one. Please point me in the right direction, if there is a preexisting.

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    Sword of Telara Valavus's Avatar
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    Not a sab player, but if I wanted such a thing, i'd just scale back sab a bit and snag another skill out of another soul that gives me that. Puncture gives 2CP's i believe..and it's pretty low in the Sin tree. but i'm not sure if you wish to stay at range..or don't mind invading a target's personal space.
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    Shadowlander
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    And for any other soul that would be good advice, but a cp without a charge has very limited utility for a sab. We don't synergize as well as most classes in that respect (or most). We need something for more than one combo point and charge, I'm thinking.

  5. #5
    Sword of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluegiraffe View Post
    And for any other soul that would be good advice, but a cp without a charge has very limited utility for a sab. We don't synergize as well as most classes in that respect (or most). We need something for more than one combo point and charge, I'm thinking.
    I think the point is you hit like a truck when you detonate, so allowing faster combo point building woudl be totally op.
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  6. #6
    Shadowlander
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    You don't, really, though... at least not hard enough to make up for being the slowest soul as far a generating combo points. Especially not fast enough for PVP burst damage.

  7. #7
    Soulwalker
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    Spec to 51 sab and you can get five combo points with one key press.

  8. #8
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    I don't know what sabs need but it feels like they need something. PvP wise they are a tad underwhelming. Burst damage isn't amazing when there is so much time in between each burst. But all the ideas I think of would probably screw with their PvE dps potential way to far.

    - make bombs/gas style bombs non gcd usable so that you can do damage while attaching a full set of explosives to set off.

    - Make a high spec sab attatch 2 charges at a time of their charges. That way it takes 2 for a decent burst, but a perfect 5 cp/charge blast takes 3 gcd's instead of 5 to prep, but you sacrifice some of the quick setup for 5 charges but it's still better than it is now.

    - make rapid setup some sort of assassin style 51pt ability. Same function, just much much more usability. Or something.

    Of course this all sounds like it would make them too OP in PvE dps though maybe I am wrong on that too. They burst but the prep is so hardcore they really seem to cater too much to a solo style of play where it's your perfect world and you have all the time in the world to prep all your trap in order and plan the fight. Their extreme prep work imo makes them underwhelming at times.

    no idea though. Just random OP ideas I come up with

  9. #9
    Shadowlander
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    To Atlas, yes, I did mention Rapid Setup in the OP, and in my opinion it doesn't do the same thing as other multi CP abilities given the long cool down.
    I still think adding an ability like the old booster charge, but with a cool down, or less than 100% chance to add a second charge would be the balance saboteurs need, by bringing the amount of time it takes us to build combo points more in line with other souls, without making us OP.

  10. #10
    Ascendant Adnoz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluegiraffe View Post
    To Atlas, yes, I did mention Rapid Setup in the OP, and in my opinion it doesn't do the same thing as other multi CP abilities given the long cool down.
    I still think adding an ability like the old booster charge, but with a cool down, or less than 100% chance to add a second charge would be the balance saboteurs need, by bringing the amount of time it takes us to build combo points more in line with other souls, without making us OP.
    Think about it like this. In one minute, puncture gives you 6 more combo points over using a regular builder.
    51pt Sabo gives you 4 more combo points per minute over using a regular builder.
    So really sabo is only off by a tiny bit.

    PS: I hate sabo and I hope it never gets touched ever infact it should be nerfed again and the estrode sabo skill should be carpet bomb annhilation bomb spam on the entire raid for 30 seconds.

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  11. #11
    Shadowlander
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    That would make a lot of sense, if it wasn't our 51 point talent, so then we're also short a good 51 point talent to balance out serpent strike, for instance. (also, other souls can cross over amongst themselves and borrow abilities, which sab really can't do effectively, like my assassin can use shadow assault)

    and why? and also why would you bother reading/posting about them, given that? (Unless I'm bad at sarcasm, maybe? Doesn't convey well via forum...)

  12. #12
    Telaran SinfulEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adnoz View Post
    Think about it like this. In one minute, puncture gives you 6 more combo points over using a regular builder.
    51pt Sabo gives you 4 more combo points per minute over using a regular builder.
    So really sabo is only off by a tiny bit.

    PS: I hate sabo and I hope it never gets touched ever infact it should be nerfed again and the estrode sabo skill should be carpet bomb annhilation bomb spam on the entire raid for 30 seconds.
    LOL at this, I kind of like what the op mentioned, with a chance of giving 2 combo points and 2 charges, nothing too op, just a small bump up to make it a little more viable. I don't want to run sab either but w/e it should at least be a viable option.

    Maybe a 20% chance to proc an additional combo point and charge on the target, On the First combo point of each rotation.(also gives you a chance to realize you got an extra one)
    That way you would have no failed combo point clipping and its not op, it would be a rather small bump up.
    /shrug though, again I don't really care....

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  13. #13
    Ascendant ShalarLight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violacea View Post
    I don't know what sabs need but it feels like they need something. PvP wise they are a tad underwhelming. Burst damage isn't amazing when there is so much time in between each burst. But all the ideas I think of would probably screw with their PvE dps potential way to far.

    - make bombs/gas style bombs non gcd usable so that you can do damage while attaching a full set of explosives to set off.

    - Make a high spec sab attatch 2 charges at a time of their charges. That way it takes 2 for a decent burst, but a perfect 5 cp/charge blast takes 3 gcd's instead of 5 to prep, but you sacrifice some of the quick setup for 5 charges but it's still better than it is now.

    - make rapid setup some sort of assassin style 51pt ability. Same function, just much much more usability. Or something.

    Of course this all sounds like it would make them too OP in PvE dps though maybe I am wrong on that too. They burst but the prep is so hardcore they really seem to cater too much to a solo style of play where it's your perfect world and you have all the time in the world to prep all your trap in order and plan the fight. Their extreme prep work imo makes them underwhelming at times.

    no idea though. Just random OP ideas I come up with
    it is saboteur, as in set things up until the time is right. If you are cycling charges and detonates on the same person in pvp, and their is more than one target, you might be doing it wrong, as this isnt pve, and killing people is the game plan, not rotational damage.

    My point is, you dont have to detonate the stack everytime it gets to 5, it is ok to leave the bombs sitting and switch targets and load someone else up, and if it causes them to stop and cleanse themselves 5 gcd's in a row, that may have been better than the detonate anyways.

    The problem originally with the soul is they were taking people on head on due to burst being too high, increasing how fast we get do our lesser burst might just push us into the same waters.

    For PvE issues, i dont know, think we have been ok with sab for pve.
    Last edited by ShalarLight; 11-07-2011 at 08:08 AM.


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    FYI Riftstalker running isn't even pve. .... You might as well call riftstalker running PVE.

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    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShalarLight View Post
    For PvE issues, i dont know, think we have been ok with sab for pve.
    Hate seeing people say sab is OK for pve. Usually it's, 'I don't spec it, but think it's ok' and there are hundreds of people who say the same thing.

    With 5 builds the only reason people take sab is for Estrode. Think about it, if it was ok wouldn't people be playing it?
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  15. #15
    Ascendant ShalarLight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayi View Post
    Hate seeing people say sab is OK for pve. Usually it's, 'I don't spec it, but think it's ok' and there are hundreds of people who say the same thing.

    With 5 builds the only reason people take sab is for Estrode. Think about it, if it was ok wouldn't people be playing it?
    maybe as a main soul... but sab has had a pretty prevalent spot in rogue pve.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rizaz View Post
    FYI Riftstalker running isn't even pve. .... You might as well call riftstalker running PVE.

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