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Thread: BiS DPS Trinket?

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
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    Default BiS DPS Trinket?

    I just obtained Shard of the Planes. Is it a dps increase over King of the Iron fist?

  2. #2
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Nope.

    Still trying to figure out whether Golem Inductor from Hammerknell is even better then KoIF. It's hard to tell.

    Some people believe King of the Iron Fist is Best in Slot for anything that drops.

    To directly answer your question, King of the Iron Fist will be best in slot until you're almost done HK, and even then some people believe it's better then the one that drops from HK so you'll be using it for a while.
    Last edited by Mayi; 11-04-2011 at 09:07 PM.

  3. #3
    Shadowlander
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    Hm alright, ty. I guess I'll just stuff it somewhere in bank.

  4. #4
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SubtleBlade View Post
    Hm alright, ty. I guess I'll just stuff it somewhere in bank.
    Lol, yup. I have 2 in the bank from T1 raids I picked up, tested, and then went back to the pvp one. Then I got the HK one a couple of weeks ago and haven't figured out which is best.

  5. #5
    Plane Touched SiliconShadow's Avatar
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    Well from what I see it seems to be around a 10% proc rate for the ap buff on Shard of planes, with its 15second buff it is pretty much 99.9% uptime, presuming the Conspirators Signet is the same then:

    Aelfwar Conspirators Signet - 43ap every second during combat
    Shard of Planes 41ap every second during combat
    King of Iron Fist 24.5ap and (17crit useless imo)

    Sadly 1ap = 1dmg most of the time, so the increase between these three trinkets is extremely minimal, I can't remember the exact number I got from testing I am at work but Quickshot took around about 34% of the ap to damage on an entry level weapon, this is indicative of most of the skills we use unless they use extra damage based on ap where it scales from 30~100% of your ap for an attack on an entry level weapon, the amount of attacks that use more ap is low however.

    It is near impossible to get the same dps number on more than one test to confirm the exact amounts but you can speculate a 4dps increase from King of the Iron First > Shard of planes with barely any difference between that and Aelfwar if it has a 10% proc rate.

    The golem inductor is on a different level but still after the ONLY guy who has one that I know has looked at it if you presume the same proc rate:

    95% in 20 seconds of 1 stack
    95% in 40 seconds of 2 stacks
    ~90% in 60seconds of 3 stacks
    ~85% in 80 seconds of 4 stacks
    ~80% in 100 seconds of 5 stacks (Numbers rough its actually slightly more than the rounded numbers)

    So for the first 40 seconds it is worse than its previous two rivals after it quickly scales past with another 4~5dps lead, I would say the King of the Iron fist is king of the trash dps and Golem Inductor is king of the boss dps from this ^-^ but thats just my opinion and the dps increase is small but great for min maxing.

  6. #6
    RIFT Guide Writer
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    Your math is flawed. If we assume a 10% proc rate and 1 attack per second then the chance of going 15 seconds without a proc is 20.5%. Or in other words 79.5% uptime. That is very far from "pretty much 99.9% uptime".

    Golem inductor has 20 second buff so if it is also 10% proc rate then it does stay up better. However it still has only 88% chance of having procced during the last 20 seconds. Or in other words every second it has on average a 12% chance of dropping all stacks. So you are not going to be spending much time in the higher stacks, you'll probably end up averaging having maybe around 2 stacks up over time on average.

    Also king of iron fist is 15 strength, 17 dexterity and 11 attack power. So at a minimum it is 27 AP. And since it's base stats it is also modified by +ap abilities like unseen fury and increased firepower. A best case scenario would be the blinky sin build that has +15% from unseen fury, +15% from annihilate and +25% from increased firepower. That would mean the 27 AP would become 37.8 AP instead while the proc items are unaffected by the modifiers.

    If you have a build that can proc more than once per second then it's a different matter.

  7. #7
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiliconShadow View Post
    Well from what I see it seems to be around a 10% proc rate for the ap buff on Shard of planes, with its 15second buff it is pretty much 99.9% uptime, presuming the Conspirators Signet is the same then:

    Aelfwar Conspirators Signet - 43ap every second during combat
    Shard of Planes 41ap every second during combat
    King of Iron Fist 24.5ap and (17crit useless imo)

    Sadly 1ap = 1dmg most of the time, so the increase between these three trinkets is extremely minimal, I can't remember the exact number I got from testing I am at work but Quickshot took around about 34% of the ap to damage on an entry level weapon, this is indicative of most of the skills we use unless they use extra damage based on ap where it scales from 30~100% of your ap for an attack on an entry level weapon, the amount of attacks that use more ap is low however.

    It is near impossible to get the same dps number on more than one test to confirm the exact amounts but you can speculate a 4dps increase from King of the Iron First > Shard of planes with barely any difference between that and Aelfwar if it has a 10% proc rate.

    The golem inductor is on a different level but still after the ONLY guy who has one that I know has looked at it if you presume the same proc rate:

    95% in 20 seconds of 1 stack
    95% in 40 seconds of 2 stacks
    ~90% in 60seconds of 3 stacks
    ~85% in 80 seconds of 4 stacks
    ~80% in 100 seconds of 5 stacks (Numbers rough its actually slightly more than the rounded numbers)

    So for the first 40 seconds it is worse than its previous two rivals after it quickly scales past with another 4~5dps lead, I would say the King of the Iron fist is king of the trash dps and Golem Inductor is king of the boss dps from this ^-^ but thats just my opinion and the dps increase is small but great for min maxing.
    From testing, I'd say the Golem Inductor has (pulling a ballpark number out my butt here) about a 30% chance of getting 5 stacks.

    The majority of time you won't build to 5, and sometimes it won't proc for half a minute.

    I compared with a mage the other day and with their variant he had a lot more success getting 5 stacks. I'm not sure what's causing the difference.

    I changed my rotation in MM from using Deadeye shot to using Hasted just to see if I could proc it more. It helps quite a bit to keep stacks up.. so my numbers are using the bulid that maintains the stacks the best and using a rotation that helps keep the stacks up the most.

    I'm not sure how long you tested, but I started paying attention to proc rates a little bit ago - the proc rates are all terrible. I recently overwrote my necrotic semblance after tracking it (it's easier to track since it gives you a ghoul form) and noticed it had less then 50% uptime, I'd say it's about 30%. Compare this to when I first picked it up and could maintain it almost 100% of the time... they're definitely playing with proc chances with stealth buffs/nerfs.
    Last edited by Mayi; 11-05-2011 at 03:08 AM.

  8. #8
    Rift Master Zeypher's Avatar
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    I used the King of the Iron Fist for a while now.

    However, I pick up the...trinket off of Hylas that gives you a chance upon attack to increase your AP.

    I constantly notice it being up, reckon thats better?

  9. #9
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeypher View Post
    I used the King of the Iron Fist for a while now.

    However, I pick up the...trinket off of Hylas that gives you a chance upon attack to increase your AP.

    I constantly notice it being up, reckon thats better?
    Not when I tested it, but I noticed proc chances seem to have gone up about a week ago, I'm not sure if they stealth patched it. I'd keep an eye on it, they might have stealth buffed proc chances. It might also depend on spec so... hard to help ya here.
    I rite a gooded guide for rouges.

    NB-Sin Guide - http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...-sin-spec.html

  10. #10
    Rift Master Zeypher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayi View Post
    Not when I tested it, but I noticed proc chances seem to have gone up about a week ago, I'm not sure if they stealth patched it. I'd keep an eye on it, they might have stealth buffed proc chances. It might also depend on spec so... hard to help ya here.
    Yeah, I obviously use MM...and well, it really does seem to just be consistently refreshing itself.

    Ill have to try and test it, but I guess tests will vary depending on how much it procs, I will have to test it a lot....Can't be assed!, haha.

  11. #11
    Rift Disciple
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    Alfwar Signet doesn't proc as much as shard of planes.

    But cold heart for me has 100% up time so i use that as dps increase Over AP increasing trinkets.

    In saying that I don't have a Golem Conductor.

  12. #12
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeypher View Post
    Yeah, I obviously use MM...and well, it really does seem to just be consistently refreshing itself.

    Ill have to try and test it, but I guess tests will vary depending on how much it procs, I will have to test it a lot....Can't be assed!, haha.
    Tell me about it, I keep trying to track mine but who wants to stare at their buff bars in an encounter.

    I mean, if you're going to stare at your buff bars, you might as well be a clicker instead of using binds, they're both equally bad because you have to focus on something other then what's going on around you.

    Sic is the only encounter I can see where you could try and watch it. I'm going to watch it this week and hopefully someone will call my name if I get a contract o.O
    I rite a gooded guide for rouges.

    NB-Sin Guide - http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...-sin-spec.html

  13. #13
    Plane Touched SiliconShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayi View Post
    From testing, I'd say the Golem Inductor has (pulling a ballpark number out my butt here) about a 30% chance of getting 5 stacks.

    The majority of time you won't build to 5, and sometimes it won't proc for half a minute.

    I compared with a mage the other day and with their variant he had a lot more success getting 5 stacks. I'm not sure what's causing the difference.

    I changed my rotation in MM from using Deadeye shot to using Hasted just to see if I could proc it more. It helps quite a bit to keep stacks up.. so my numbers are using the bulid that maintains the stacks the best and using a rotation that helps keep the stacks up the most.

    I'm not sure how long you tested, but I started paying attention to proc rates a little bit ago - the proc rates are all terrible. I recently overwrote my necrotic semblance after tracking it (it's easier to track since it gives you a ghoul form) and noticed it had less then 50% uptime, I'd say it's about 30%. Compare this to when I first picked it up and could maintain it almost 100% of the time... they're definitely playing with proc chances with stealth buffs/nerfs.
    Just throwing this out there but it looks like they have altered the internal cooldowns of these trinkets which will make a significant difference to the uptime pretty much halving the proc rate if its 1second.

  14. #14
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiliconShadow View Post
    Just throwing this out there but it looks like they have altered the internal cooldowns of these trinkets which will make a significant difference to the uptime pretty much halving the proc rate if its 1second.
    On PTS? If so I still don't regret overwriting necrotic. Despite my high ap, I think going for str items with ap is hurting my dps. I got the offhand I did because no one else wanted it and it has high hit... ring I've had forever, about the first or 2nd week of HK, but I need to get my crit up.

    With new better lessers it'll help to get my crit back up to 1k, especially since I don't like any melee build out there.. but might end up going NB and crit is important. Since I don't want to blink, dusk to dawn sucks, and don't like BD now that dances have no CD (kept double tapping dances with them all on one macro, have to not be a button masher for that spec... plus don't want to track them) I might just stay MM, haven't decided.

    I'm picky about which spec I'm going to play now that they're relatively even. I'm going to play the one that's the most fun with the least annoying mechanics - which is MM-Assn or MM-10rng-5RS.
    Last edited by Mayi; 11-05-2011 at 05:17 AM.
    I rite a gooded guide for rouges.

    NB-Sin Guide - http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...-sin-spec.html

  15. #15
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayi View Post
    On PTS? If so I still don't regret overwriting necrotic. Despite my high ap, I think going for str items with ap is hurting my dps. I got the offhand I did because no one else wanted it and it has high hit... ring I've had forever, about the first or 2nd week of HK, but I need to get my crit up.

    With new better lessers it'll help to get my crit back up to 1k, especially since I don't like any melee build out there.. but might end up going NB and crit is important. Since I don't want to blink, dusk to dawn sucks, and don't like BD now that dances have no CD (kept double tapping dances with them all on one macro, have to not be a button masher for that spec... plus don't want to track them) I might just stay MM, haven't decided.

    I'm picky about which spec I'm going to play now that they're relatively even. I'm going to play the one that's the most fun with the least annoying mechanics - which is MM-Assn or MM-10rng-5RS.
    You should check out this addon. It makes tracking your buffs way easier.

    http://www.curse.com/addons/rift/nkrebuff

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