+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 52
Like Tree8Likes

Thread: Are the tanks supposed to be equal? A question we need the answer to.

  1. #1
    Rift Chaser Devious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    394

    Default Are the tanks supposed to be equal? A question we need the answer to.

    Hoping Ailion takes the time to read this.

    I've been tanking since the beginning of rift as a rogue. I do very much enjoy tanking as a rogue, theres a lot to keep your eye on and some fun to be had with blinks for sure.

    However, I'm not sure where we're suppose to stand in the heirarchy. I thought we were meant to all, as tanks, be equal and different. Up until now warriors have been incredible, and the others sub-par and a significantly weaker choice. Pre-HK it did not matter because the content was not difficult, but it really does now.

    I love my rogue I've invested a lot of time in it, but I don't want to be the 3rd choice. I would much rather spend my time levelling and gearing a warrior if the truth of the matter is that we will always be sub-par (even if its only a little.)

    Could we get some confirmation on what TRION's plan is for the tanks, and if we are intended to be equal but different, or intended to have warriors as a primary choice and the others slightly weaker but different. Changes do seem to be coming that are upping the state of rogues, but it will all be for naught in my eyes if we don't end up equal to the others. So it would really allow me to make an informed decision whether to stick with it, or to switch class and invest my time there if this question could be answered.

    The question: "Are the tanks supposed to be equal and different, or will warriors always be the primary choice with the others not bad, but second to them?"

    Thanks for taking the time to read, please answer.

    Myself, and many other rogue tanks.
    Split - Rogue Tank - Purge to Win
    GSB - 5/5 / RoS - 4/4 / HK - 11/11

  2. #2
    Ascendant Galibier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    10,460

    Default

    I would say not in all manner of tanking. I think what they should do is just make a decision as to whether the RS should be an OT or MT and then design the soul around this..

    Ex. If they chose OT then you give them top tier AE aggro with defensive tools designed to make them very durable over the long term against the more moderately hitting group adds with some kicking temp BIG damage reduction for times they need to snap a named or tank on a tank swap fight.

    Conversely if they were to make them an MT then you give then killer ST aggro and damage reduction appropriate to tanking named bosses over the long haul but at the expense of losing some AE aggro.

    When it is the only tank soul in a calling trying to balance tanking on damage type is a losing proposition. Why bring in the RS tank for fights A or B due to damage type when you can simply have the same warrior rank just switch specs. However if you do it based on the MT vs OT/add tank paradigm then you get a far more realistic and practical scenario.

    I suspect they are trying to avoid this however regardless of the logic. It would be naturally easier to make them an MT but then you would be riaking annoying people who do 5 mans. A similar thing happened in EQ2 in TSO. People who played Guardians made much better MTs than Berserkers so in raid forces the issue was minimal however in the multi mob hencounter happy dungeons they felt squeezed out because of their ST tanking focus.
    Last edited by Galibier; 11-04-2011 at 03:29 AM.

  3. #3
    Ascendant
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    1,674

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Galibier View Post
    A similar thing happened in EQ2 in TSO. People who played Guardians made much better MTs than Berserkers so in raid forces the issue was minimal however in the multi mob hencounter happy dungeons they felt squeezed out because of their ST tanking focus.
    And then you had the monks (me!) who would just train and Feign Death at the door to a name and skip killing all the trash anyway. not killing it is faster than AoEing it all down.

    Anyhow, it would be nice to get an official response on this matter, but i'll be shocked if we actually get one. If the devs say we'll be off-tanks, the warriors will ***** up a storm because we're taking their jobs! And we've only got one soul how can we possibly be the best tank in <insert situation here>!?

    Conversly if we're made MTs, they'll ***** up a storm for the same reasons because WARRIROS ARE TEH TANK SOUL DAMMIT IT WAS LIKE THAT IN WOW!

    Anyhow, see my signature.
    I'M RIFTSTALKING YOUR MUM!

    I've found that Warriors are like Feminists. They want equality when it suits them, but the rest of the time they want to be treated special.

  4. #4
    Rift Disciple
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    147

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Devious View Post
    However, I'm not sure where we're suppose to stand in the heirarchy. I thought we were meant to all, as tanks, be equal and different. Up until now warriors have been incredible, and the others sub-par and a significantly weaker choice. Pre-HK it did not matter because the content was not difficult, but it really does now.

    I love my rogue I've invested a lot of time in it, but I don't want to be the 3rd choice. I would much rather spend my time levelling and gearing a warrior if the truth of the matter is that we will always be sub-par (even if its only a little.)

    The question: "Are the tanks supposed to be equal and different, or will warriors always be the primary choice with the others not bad, but second to them?"
    All you have to do is look at the options. Can a 51pt VK Warrior tank every single encounter in the game equally well? If not, what makes you think that a 51pt RS Rogue can? Is there at least one fight that a 51pt VK Warrior is the prefered tank spec? If so does it not follow that there would be at least one fight that a 51pt RS Rogue would be the prefered tanks spec for? Is it possible for a well played 51pt VK Warrior to tank every single encounter in the game? If so does it not follow that it is possible for a well played 51pt RS Rogue to tank every single encounter in the game?
    The point is playing a Rogue tank is like playing with ONE warrior tank spec because rogues only have one tanking soul. The advantage that warriors have is that they can play with up to five totaly different tanking specs because they have 4 tanking souls worth of options to mix and match and theses options will allow them to tank more different kinds of encounters easier than any one spec would allow them to. Does that mean that a rogue tank is worthless, no. It just means that for some encounters they are going to have a much harder (but still possible) time of it than a warrior who has 5 very different specs to choose from.
    Encounters are different, bosses are different. If I have the option of designing a spec using 4 times as many talents and abilities don't you think that the odds are that I will be able to create a spec that will make it easier for me to deal with that specific fight than if I only have one option? And if so why is this a problem?

  5. #5
    Ascendant Galibier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    10,460

    Default

    The issue is they need to be seen as viable in all TIERS of content ot what is the point? Part of being viable is NOT just being useful on some gimick fight or mob (as happened in EQ2 with brawlers). That is why I propose making the balance be based on the MT and OT roles.

  6. #6
    Rift Chaser Devious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    394

    Default

    Nothing? Seriously, come on TRION. There would be a lot less hate for you guys if we knew roughly what to expect. We could also give much more structured feedback if we knew what you were actually aiming for...
    Split - Rogue Tank - Purge to Win
    GSB - 5/5 / RoS - 4/4 / HK - 11/11

  7. #7
    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    6,018

    Default

    at this point it's pretty clear the whole FOUR TANK SOULS argument has won the devs' favour

    i think we just need to accept it

  8. #8
    Telaran
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    80

    Default

    I will accept it when they apply the same philosophy to DPS.
    Quote Originally Posted by TroubleMagnet View Post
    We have the special ability to convert warrior entitlement into rogue tears so we will never run out.

  9. #9
    Champion of Telara
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,261

    Default

    I suspect they are trying to avoid this however regardless of the logic.
    This.

    1. Trion will always claim that they want all the tank roles to be equal. Hell, they may even mean it (not).

    2. As a practical matter, this will never happen.

    3. In light of real balance being unachievable, it's easiest for Trion to let Warrs be #1 at tanking, since they'll raise the biggest ****storm on the forums for not being #1.


    The point is playing a Rogue tank is like playing with ONE warrior tank spec because rogues only have one tanking soul. The advantage that warriors have is that they can play with up to five totaly different tanking specs because they have 4 tanking souls worth of options to mix and match and theses options will allow them to tank more different kinds of encounters easier than any one spec would allow them to. Does that mean that a rogue tank is worthless, no. It just means that for some encounters they are going to have a much harder (but still possible) time of it than a warrior who has 5 very different specs to choose from.

    Encounters are different, bosses are different. If I have the option of designing a spec using 4 times as many talents and abilities don't you think that the odds are that I will be able to create a spec that will make it easier for me to deal with that specific fight than if I only have one option? And if so why is this a problem?
    That's a lot of bull****ting to talk your way around the fact that Rogue tanks suck compared to Warriors in every encounter.

  10. #10
    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    6,018

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fitz1 View Post
    I will accept it when they apply the same philosophy to DPS.
    that's contingent on them actually communicating any sort of philosophy to us to begin with

    GLHF there

  11. #11
    Ascendant
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    2,013

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fitz1 View Post
    I will accept it when they apply the same philosophy to DPS.
    They have. You feel free to use that bow when it suits you. Part-time meleers should have part-time melee salaries.

  12. #12
    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    6,018

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PFalcon View Post
    They have. You feel free to use that bow when it suits you. Part-time meleers should have part-time melee salaries.
    buff mage melee dps imo

  13. #13
    Champion of Telara
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,261

    Default

    They have. You feel free to use that bow when it suits you. Part-time meleers should have part-time melee salaries.
    Unfortunately 'range DPS' and 'melee DPS' are not different roles. They are both "DPS" -- a role designation made by Trion.

    Thus, Rogues have 6 DPS souls that do less DPS than 4 Warrior DPS souls. And Warriors have 4 tank souls that tank better than the Rogue tank soul.

    End of story kid.

  14. #14
    Telaran
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    80

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PFalcon View Post
    They have. You feel free to use that bow when it suits you. Part-time meleers should have part-time melee salaries.
    Sadly warriors actually believe this. They want to have their cake and eat it too.
    Quote Originally Posted by TroubleMagnet View Post
    We have the special ability to convert warrior entitlement into rogue tears so we will never run out.

  15. #15
    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    6,018

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fitz1 View Post
    Sadly warriors actually believe this. They want to have their cake and eat it too.
    The best part is that they think Rogues have more souls so they have more options but not better DPS, but when it comes to tanking they think that since Warriors have more souls they should have more options and better mitigation. Funny how that works in their favour, isn't it?
    Last edited by Ianto Jones; 11-04-2011 at 07:35 AM.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts