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Thread: Why I hate Nightblade and Bladedancer is just better for PvP

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    Rift Master blackweb's Avatar
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    Default Why I hate Nightblade and Bladedancer is just better for PvP

    I think I have tried just about every Assassin spec. Most recently, after 1.5 I tried

    Nightblade (17) / Assassin (40) / Riftstalker (8)

    I gave the FotM nightblade a good try. I just dont like it and here is why

    1. Damage looks good on paper but in in your face combat, it doesnt measure up due to insufficient crit. Assassin is a crit-physical damage based soul. Nightblade just doesnt have much synergy with sin. Insufficient crit = insufficient procs.

    2. 17 pts is too much to pay for 1 defensive buff (Fel Blades), especially when most of the targets you fight are rogues or warriors. There just arent enough healers around to leech health off of anymore.

    3. Bladedancer is just better. For 18 pts you get some great rogue buffs; 5% dodge, 5% hit, 15% dexterity, sprint and 5% mitigation + 5% damage proc. These are what makes a rogue a better; dodge, hit, crit, more dodge, a proc and some very good defensive buffs like sidesteps and sprint. Flash of steel might be the best gap closer in the game. All of those buffs synergize with or activate the assassin soul.

    4. There is one downside, no healing debuff. After you get to rank 6, that isnt such a big problem. There is always a nightblade, mm or ranger around to provide one.

    With nightblade, I felt like I was rank 4 in rank 6 gear. With bladedancer, I am standing toe to toe with rank 8 warriors and rogues. Yes healers take longer to kill but if all a spec is good for is to kill healers its pretty worthless these days. Oh and no, I am not interested in spending 31 pts in nb to get a purple beam of death every 2 mins.
    Last edited by blackweb; 11-03-2011 at 08:54 AM.

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    Plane Walker Odaman's Avatar
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    Yes heal debuff doesnt help at all. Defensive buff indeed. I wasn't aware a defensive buff cut your targets heals in half. It's never been about the extra healing, that's the fluff that could be nerfed into the ground and it would make little difference. I like bladedancer but the heal debuff alone trumps a majority of the bladedancer tree for killing a target in a group setting. Solo it's usually not needed.

    Also its 16pts in nb for fell blades =x
    Last edited by Odaman; 11-03-2011 at 08:55 AM.

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    Rift Master blackweb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odaman View Post
    Yes heal debuff doesnt help at all. Defensive buff indeed. I wasn't aware a defensive buff cut your targets heals in half. It's never been about the extra healing, that's the fluff that could be nerfed into the ground and it would make little difference. I like bladedancer but the heal debuff alone trumps a majority of the nightblade tree for killing a target in a group setting. Solo it's usually not needed.
    I call FB a defensive buff because of the life stealing or sefl healing portion. The healing debuff is offensive but thats only against healers, its worthless for every other class and spec. The rest of the stuff in the nb tree is just meh to me.
    Last edited by blackweb; 11-03-2011 at 08:58 AM.

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    Plane Walker Odaman's Avatar
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    I assume by just against healers you mean anyone getting heals.... otherwise you should reread the tooltip.
    Idk 18% dmg, 15% fire/death resist (even better next patch as you'll see tons of pyros and warlocks, as well as the nightblades and riftblades (fiery burst)) Sure bladedancer is nice but it has nothing on nightblade if you want to kill anything in a group. 1v1 is another story, personally I like a 51sin build for that.

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    Champion ShazzamCrucia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odaman View Post
    I assume by just against healers you mean anyone getting heals.... otherwise you should reread the tooltip.
    Idk 18% dmg, 15% fire/death resist (even better next patch as you'll see tons of pyros and warlocks, as well as the nightblades and riftblades (fiery burst)) Sure bladedancer is nice but it has nothing on nightblade if you want to kill anything in a group. 1v1 is another story, personally I like a 51sin build for that.
    fire and death attunement is getting reworked, no freebie 15% anymore

    -50% healing taken is necessary now, pvp seems to be balanced around these types of debuffs being on everyone all the time lol

    as always it comes down to preference, I like bladedancer for sidesteps + flash + deadly dance + weapon barrage
    <Bastion>
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    RIFT Guide Writer Ninjahax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShazzamCrucia View Post
    fire and death attunement is getting reworked, no freebie 15% anymore
    That's news to me. Where did you hear this from?

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    Rift Master blackweb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odaman View Post
    I assume by just against healers you mean anyone getting heals.... otherwise you should reread the tooltip.
    Idk 18% dmg, 15% fire/death resist (even better next patch as you'll see tons of pyros and warlocks, as well as the nightblades and riftblades (fiery burst)) Sure bladedancer is nice but it has nothing on nightblade if you want to kill anything in a group. 1v1 is another story, personally I like a 51sin build for that.
    Yea I know FB works on any target being healed. I seem to get more healing from healers from it. The problem with NB is what you are paying to get 2 or 3 good abilities. You get a whole bunch of weak spell/physical abilites that dont have much if any synergy in any other tree, especially assassin. Look at the sin tree, its all +crit, +crit damage, proc from crit and bleeds, prety much all physical + poison which is water damage + bonus effects. No death, no fire, no non-physical damage buffs except poison.

    The only synergy I can see with nb is with rs. That synergy is gimmicky and op and will be nerfed sooner or later. I dont see melee dps tank rogues with good spell damage being around much longer than their warrior versions.
    Last edited by blackweb; 11-03-2011 at 09:50 AM.

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    Rift Disciple Xahz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackweb View Post
    I think I have tried just about every Assassin spec. Most recently, after 1.5 I tried

    Nightblade (17) / Assassin (40) / Riftstalker (8)

    I gave the FotM nightblade a good try. I just dont like it and here is why

    1. Damage looks good on paper but in in your face combat, it doesnt measure up due to insufficient crit. Assassin is a crit-physical damage based soul. Nightblade just doesnt have much synergy with sin. Insufficient crit = insufficient procs.

    2. 17 pts is too much to pay for 1 defensive buff (Fel Blades), especially when most of the targets you fight are rogues or warriors. There just arent enough healers around to leech health off of anymore.

    3. Bladedancer is just better. For 18 pts you get some great rogue buffs; 5% dodge, 5% hit, 15% dexterity, sprint and 5% mitigation + 5% damage proc. These are what makes a rogue a better; dodge, hit, crit, more dodge, a proc and some very good defensive buffs like sidesteps and sprint. Flash of steel might be the best gap closer in the game. All of those buffs synergize with or activate the assassin soul.

    4. There is one downside, no healing debuff. After you get to rank 6, that isnt such a big problem. There is always a nightblade, mm or ranger around to provide one.

    With nightblade, I felt like I was rank 4 in rank 6 gear. With bladedancer, I am standing toe to toe with rank 8 warriors and rogues. Yes healers take longer to kill but if all a spec is good for is to kill healers its pretty worthless these days. Oh and no, I am not interested in spending 31 pts in nb to get a purple beam of death every 2 mins.
    Yea your spec pretty much makes no sense. If you want to be Sin without a healing debuff, go 44Sin/22RS, or 51Sin/whatever.

    NB gives you ranged attacks which you wouldn't have otherwise in addition to the healing debuff. And without Fel Blades, you're not going to be killing anyone p6 or higher if they're getting heals.

  9. #9
    Plane Touched
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    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...xsbqddo.VVdA.V

    Heres the current build I am using now for my Assassin build. I have also done many others ones, but I landed on this one the other day.

    My AP and CRIT with this build are: 662/841 as opposed to the 44NB/22RS I have 595/724.

    However the performance just doesn't seem to be there, I have some nice builders with this build with Reprisal, Quick Strike, Precision Strike, Puncture, Back Stab witch is what I love about it. However when I run this build I don't get the KBs that I can get with the NB/RS. Since I started my rogue I have always run a variation of a Sin/BD dancer spec and toyed around with many and its by far my favorite.

    However what do you think is more effective based on the stats I showed above? Its a massive stat boost running the BD with 5 RS spec and 40sin. But does it really make that much of a difference or just looks flashier on the stats screen?

    I think my most effective Sin spec so far though as far as bust was 51sin/15Infil, however the lack of mobility is demoralizing.

    I was thinking to try a 51sin/15 RS build today and see if I like it. I still have my beloved sin, plus the massive mobility of Plane Shifts. What does everybody seem to think on this one at the moment?
    "Nothing is more unjust, however common, than to charge with hypocrisy him that expresses zeal for those virtues which he neglects to practice; since he may be sincerely convinced of the advantages of conquering his passions, without having yet obtained the victory........"

  10. #10
    Rift Master blackweb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xahz View Post
    Yea your spec pretty much makes no sense. If you want to be Sin without a healing debuff, go 44Sin/22RS, or 51Sin/whatever.

    NB gives you ranged attacks which you wouldn't have otherwise in addition to the healing debuff. And without Fel Blades, you're not going to be killing anyone p6 or higher if they're getting heals.
    I dont need crutches or cookie cutter specs to win. In fact, bd gives me more time on target than nb does with its weak ranged attacks. I have my playstyle, you have yours. If my spec makes no sense to you, maybe you dont understand rogues. Rogues need dex, crit, hit and dodge. Bd has all those

  11. #11
    Rift Master blackweb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fade2Black View Post
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...xsbqddo.VVdA.V

    Heres the current build I am using now for my Assassin build. I have also done many others ones, but I landed on this one the other day.

    My AP and CRIT with this build are: 662/841 as opposed to the 44NB/22RS I have 595/724.

    However the performance just doesn't seem to be there, I have some nice builders with this build with Reprisal, Quick Strike, Precision Strike, Puncture, Back Stab witch is what I love about it. However when I run this build I don't get the KBs that I can get with the NB/RS. Since I started my rogue I have always run a variation of a Sin/BD dancer spec and toyed around with many and its by far my favorite.

    However what do you think is more effective based on the stats I showed above? Its a massive stat boost running the BD with 5 RS spec and 40sin. But does it really make that much of a difference or just looks flashier on the stats screen?

    I think my most effective Sin spec so far though as far as bust was 51sin/15Infil, however the lack of mobility is demoralizing.

    I was thinking to try a 51sin/15 RS build today and see if I like it. I still have my beloved sin, plus the massive mobility of Plane Shifts. What does everybody seem to think on this one at the moment?
    My spec is most effective against melee. With the nb/sin/rs spec I posed, geared warriors and rogues wipe the floor with me. That spec is only effective against self healers. With the spec on my sig, I can stand toe to toe with the strongest melee and still do well against ranged.

  12. #12
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    The big thing about NB is the type of damage it does. Phys damage is fairly hosed in Pvp.

    /shrug. I have 2 specs that have sin in them, one with BD. Most of the time I still end up going back to some variant of 40+Nb, 20+RS. Mobility, snare, gap closers, ranged attacks, and damage types that people don't have resistance too.

    Hitting a S+B warrior with phys attacks is pretty much worthless, all I ever tend to see is 61(542 blocked). Same goes for fighting other rogues, esp some of the semi tank builds that are running guardian phase.

    At the end of the day, you should play what you enjoy. Like BD? Awesome ;)

  13. #13
    Rift Disciple Xahz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackweb View Post
    I dont need crutches or cookie cutter specs to win. In fact, bd gives me more time on target than nb does with its weak ranged attacks. I have my playstyle, you have yours. If my spec makes no sense to you, maybe you dont understand rogues. Rogues need dex, crit, hit and dodge. Bd has all those
    Um...alright. If you're using an inferior spec to make it seem like you're "better" than have fun getting trashed by people that know how to spec their character. What you linked doesn't have a fundamentally different playstyle, it just has points that are poorly allocated. Its pretty much mathematically inferior to 44Sin/22RS and plays the exact same way.
    Last edited by Xahz; 11-03-2011 at 10:57 AM.

  14. #14
    Plane Touched
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    I also ran a 40Sin/26BD spec for a while, Disassemble is a great thing to have against other melee.
    "Nothing is more unjust, however common, than to charge with hypocrisy him that expresses zeal for those virtues which he neglects to practice; since he may be sincerely convinced of the advantages of conquering his passions, without having yet obtained the victory........"

  15. #15
    Rift Master blackweb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xahz View Post
    Um...alright. If you're using an inferior spec to make it seem like you're "better" than have fun getting trashed by people that know how to spec their character. What you linked doesn't have a fundamentally different playstyle, it just has points that are poorly allocated.
    Seriously dude, how many healers do you run into these days? I see almost none in world pvp and maybe 1 or 2 per wf and those get focused down fast. Healers are no longer an issue in RIFT pvp. Rift pvp is about powerful raned and melee dps. Then the key becomes damage mitigation and time on target. Flash of steel gives me great time on target.

    As for physical damage being nerfed. I dont see it, not the kind of damage I do. Physical burst, yes but bleeds and dots are quite effective.

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