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Thread: Make turn the tide proc on deflect? And swap it with Strike Back?

  1. #1
    Rift Chaser Devious's Avatar
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    Default Make turn the tide proc on deflect? And swap it with Strike Back?

    Title says it all.

    I think this could actually without changing to much give us a heck of a stronger build. No mechanics changing really needed except for TtT procing from deflects, dodges and parries. It would essentially increase our chance of proccing TtT by around 30%.

    We already know the build is "better". This way we'd gain back our lost mitigation from Riftstalker, and gain the higher procs.

    Thoughts?
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  2. #2
    Champion Cinerus's Avatar
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    One problem: To get deflect you need Guardian Phase. It doesn't make sense for this talent to be in the Bladedancer soul tree then.
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  3. #3
    Shield of Telara Spungey's Avatar
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    i don't think that would be better...Deflect is close to being a myth..it hardly happens. You have alot better chance to dodge, even though you have less dodge % than chance to deflect %...and there's always sidesteps where you will get plenty of chances to dodge.

    Well..if u add the Parry and dodge up..you def have more of a chance...the RNG of deflect sucks

    better yet, change it to this.

    Turn the Tide: You apply this buff to yourself or another player. When that player dodge/parry you gain 10% more damage and take 10% less damage...That would be 2/2 of course.

    Also make strike back the same way. So both the rogue tank and the rogue dps can actually benefit. Right now, Turn the Tide and Strike Back are only used in PvP and Rogue tanking. The PvE rogue dps can't benefit at all.

    Those alone would give the melee rogues a good nudge in the right direction for dps. But I def would only allow melee rogues to be able to do this.
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  4. #4
    Plane Walker Phantom Scony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinerus View Post
    One problem: To get deflect you need Guardian Phase. It doesn't make sense for this talent to be in the Bladedancer soul tree then.
    One could as easily argue only Tanks focus on Dodge/Parry enough to make Tricks worthwhile. It doesn't devalue the talent for Bladedancer, and gives that synergy they seem to yearn for.

    That being said, I do like this idea.*

    * Author has no interest in, or understanding of, PvP and their specs/builds/mechanics.
    "But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
    "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
    Mirage of Faeblight

  5. #5
    Ascendant JimboTCB's Avatar
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    As I understand it, Deflect scales horribly with tank gear at the moment, so putting talents that proc off of it in a DPS soul make perfect sense.

    Plus I want to see how invulnerable I can make my AOE famring spec. It was pretty solid before just with chaining planeshifts and slaugtering everything nearby with Planar Vortex, add Deflect into the mix and it's even better.

  6. #6
    Plane Walker Phantom Scony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimboTCB View Post
    As I understand it, Deflect scales horribly with tank gear at the moment, so putting talents that proc off of it in a DPS soul make perfect sense.

    Plus I want to see how invulnerable I can make my AOE famring spec. It was pretty solid before just with chaining planeshifts and slaugtering everything nearby with Planar Vortex, add Deflect into the mix and it's even better.
    We can argue either semantics or mechanics.

    Semantics? "Deflecting" a blow and taking some damage is, itself, just a failed parry attempt. Which Tricks of the Trade already reacts to.

    Mechanically, Tricks of the Trade is only used for solosurvivability and tanking. Why limit it based on whether it's in a dps soul or not? Best case, Riftstalker has to spend 15 points somewhere. So, why not make those points friendlier to us? As I said, it doesn't devalue it for Bladedancers.
    Last edited by Phantom Scony; 11-03-2011 at 09:09 AM.
    "But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
    "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
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  7. #7
    Plane Walker Phantom Scony's Avatar
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    Additionally, the problem with Riftstalker has always been uptime. 20% Dodge + 10% Parry on a boss with a slow attack speed means it's down a lot. I know the math won't change much, but how would another roll at 30% Deflect affect uptime?
    "But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
    "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
    Mirage of Faeblight

  8. #8
    Rift Chaser Devious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phantom Scony View Post
    Additionally, the problem with Riftstalker has always been uptime. 20% Dodge + 10% Parry on a boss with a slow attack speed means it's down a lot. I know the math won't change much, but how would another roll at 30% Deflect affect uptime?
    That is -one- of the problems with the build. The additional 30% odd is nearly doubling the chance.

    The other problem is that you have to lose so much to get it. 41 RS loses 10 pts from all the improved talents in the RS tree. This way you don't lose -any- of that passive mitigation, and in fact you just flat gain 10% on top of deflect (assuming its up enough, which this will help with.)

    It wouldn't be a massive buff a slight re-arrangement, and would give us a better spec all round.
    Split - Rogue Tank - Purge to Win
    GSB - 5/5 / RoS - 4/4 / HK - 11/11

  9. #9
    Plane Walker Phantom Scony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devious View Post
    That is -one- of the problems with the build. The additional 30% odd is nearly doubling the chance.

    The other problem is that you have to lose so much to get it. 41 RS loses 10 pts from all the improved talents in the RS tree. This way you don't lose -any- of that passive mitigation, and in fact you just flat gain 10% on top of deflect (assuming its up enough, which this will help with.)

    It wouldn't be a massive buff a slight re-arrangement, and would give us a better spec all round.
    Right. I like it. I'd do that thing you do to petitions but I heard some weird rule about doing that.
    "But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
    "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
    Mirage of Faeblight

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