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Thread: Muffin...take a look at this suggestion for Riftstalkers for me?

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    Default Muffin...take a look at this suggestion for Riftstalkers for me?

    Allow me to preface before I explain the mechanic. This mechanic I am working on is strictly around the theory that deflect will continue to scale exactly like it is now.

    Logic behind mechanic: Make tank gear viable to impact deflect, albeit in an interesting way: utilizing our DPS/PVP soul points already in our tree.

    The mechanic is tied to Improved Guardian Phase.

    Essentially it works like this: Riftstalker crits provide a bubble 15% of the crit damage. It strictly mitigates physical damage. It's on an 8 second buff, but refreshes with additional crits. If completely absorbed it goes away until the next crit.

    Next step is every 200 endurance the bubble % goes up 2.5% with a hardcap of 40% of crit damage done

    It pairs well with Dex and our talents--improving crit, pairs well with our #1 stacked stat Endurance.

    It's not 'Godly' because we don't do that much physical damage, it will help slightly to even out the lower Deflect rating (which is alright with this mechanic).

    On trash it will mitigate slightly as it won't have time to 'add' to the bubble, and on boss fights it will have a little more time to 'add' before taking a hit.

    So it will look something like Dodge/Parry -> Rift Guard/Deflect -> Physical bubble -> Armor

    Formula (might need help to tweak a bit) but something like Crit*[.15+(End/200)] for 8 seconds (refreshed on new crit).

    It will help smooth out the RNG because it will always be up in some capacity. Thoughts?

    The goal here is to make tank gear viable as opposed PVP+PVE dps gear to stack deflect rating.

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    Plane Walker Knightcrawler's Avatar
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    So I'll absorb 15% of my 140 damage planar strike or 15% of my guarded steels 750 damage (on the off chance it crits).

    Seems like nothing. You can probably hit 2gcds in the time of each boss attack, and you cant even say theres a good chance ONE of those will crit, let alone getting some of them to stack up. Id like to see ur math I guess. Lets say I crit for 500 - what am I going to absorb? Lets say with 1400 endur - I think thats pretty basic. This wouldnt smooth out damage like you may thing considering it only happens on a crit and our crit chance is already pretty abysmal
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talaren View Post
    Allow me to preface before I explain the mechanic. This mechanic I am working on is strictly around the theory that deflect will continue to scale exactly like it is now.

    Logic behind mechanic: Make tank gear viable to impact deflect, albeit in an interesting way: utilizing our DPS/PVP soul points already in our tree.

    The mechanic is tied to Improved Guardian Phase.

    Essentially it works like this: Riftstalker crits provide a bubble 15% of the crit damage. It strictly mitigates physical damage. It's on an 8 second buff, but refreshes with additional crits. If completely absorbed it goes away until the next crit.

    Next step is every 200 endurance the bubble % goes up 2.5% with a hardcap of 40% of crit damage done

    It pairs well with Dex and our talents--improving crit, pairs well with our #1 stacked stat Endurance.

    It's not 'Godly' because we don't do that much physical damage, it will help slightly to even out the lower Deflect rating (which is alright with this mechanic).

    On trash it will mitigate slightly as it won't have time to 'add' to the bubble, and on boss fights it will have a little more time to 'add' before taking a hit.

    So it will look something like Dodge/Parry -> Rift Guard/Deflect -> Physical bubble -> Armor

    Formula (might need help to tweak a bit) but something like Crit*[.15+(End/200)] for 8 seconds (refreshed on new crit).

    It will help smooth out the RNG because it will always be up in some capacity. Thoughts?

    The goal here is to make tank gear viable as opposed PVP+PVE dps gear to stack deflect rating.
    While the equation would have to be altered, the only thing about this is that the description of the Improved Guardian Phase tootlip would become really complicated which I don't believe it's in Trion's best interest (more complicated than the description of Rift Guard which looks pretty bad if your a new player and don't understand how it works).

    Ex: this would be what the tooltip on imp guardian phase would look like with your suggestion.

    Imp Guardian Phase: Increases your Endurance by an additional 5%. For every point spent in the Riftstalker Soul above 26, an additional 1% bonus is added to your endurance. In addition, for every successful physical crit, you gain a bonus shield from the crit damage damage * 15% * endurance / 200 (This equation could be simplified obviously) shield that lasts for up to 8 seconds. These bonuses are applied only when you are in Guardian Phase.

    I think it would be fair to just have Ruthless Stalker (the 15% increased crit chance after plane shifting) to convert into an equation like this if your in Guardian phase. If it were up to me, I'd change the way a few skills work in the Riftstalker tree (especially rift guard). I would make it scale on endurance with diminish returns (otherwise your absorb would eventually get crazy like the warriors chance to block is now).

    Trion has already given us deflection and I don't believe they will revert this so may as well just improve it from where it is now. I think the most logical way to do this given that we don't have any + deflect gear is to make it scale with endurance. For every point of endurance while in guardian phase, you gain 1 deflection as an example.

    This would give me slightly below 60% chance to deflect with my gear.

    Your idea isn't a bad one if we modify the equation a little but I think the tooltip on the changes would be quite lengthy and cause confusions for many players. There's also the fact that this could be exploited in some situations.

    An example of a potential exploit is having another tank have threat on a large number of AOE mobs and you'd keep your planar vortex / attacks running on those mobs for a while then have the tank drag those mobs to the boss. You would then tank the boss while keeping your planar vortex on these mobs (which would keep refreshing your shield that already has say 100,000+ absorb on it) and maintain your shield throughout the fight. There would obviously need to be limitations in this (perhaps having a maximum of what you can absorb). I just think it would over complicate things. I believe Trion is trying to simplify things atm.
    Last edited by Muffin911; 11-03-2011 at 08:44 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Knightcrawler View Post
    So I'll absorb 15% of my 140 damage planar strike or 15% of my guarded steels 750 damage (on the off chance it crits).

    Seems like nothing. You can probably hit 2gcds in the time of each boss attack, and you cant even say theres a good chance ONE of those will crit, let alone getting some of them to stack up. Id like to see ur math I guess. Lets say I crit for 500 - what am I going to absorb? Lets say with 1400 endur - I think thats pretty basic. This wouldnt smooth out damage like you may thing considering it only happens on a crit and our crit chance is already pretty abysmal
    This is good feedback, and this is exactly why i'd like to involve Muffin on this one.

    Planeshifting to keep up the static 15% crit, puts me at about 30%+ crit. That's for ALL abilities not just abilities, but white damage, and planar vortex, Rift Guards reflect in PTS, the gauranteed attack on dodge from BD, and off the GCD reprisal.

    It adds up...and not to mention the RNG factors of dodge/parry would allow that bubble to continue to stack.

    It isn't much, and perhaps the base amount needs to be a bit higher, say 25% as opposed to 15%.

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    You could remove the 3/3 Rift Guard reflect and make it 2/2 and add a soul point for this particular skill, only works in Guardian Phase.

    The bubble cap could be half of your health.

    It seems like that would make it easy.

    Planar Absorbtion -- In Guardian Phase 15% critical strike damage becomes a bubble for physical damage. Increased by 2.5% every 200 endurance caps at 50% crit damage. Cannot exceed 50% of maximum health.

    Thoughts on that Muffin? Seems easy enough to me.
    Last edited by Talaren; 11-03-2011 at 09:20 AM.

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    You could also have a mechanic where crit damage is increased by a % based on damage taken, which would help this invented mechanic. It keeps it quite a bit different from warriors/clerics, helps with the lack of armor, and scaled with End albeit in a round about way.

  7. #7
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    You know how good Trion's PR is when a player posts on the forums asking for Muffin, instead of the actual rogue dev, to take a look at rogue mechanics.

    -_-

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    Quote Originally Posted by Threx View Post
    You know how good Trion's PR is when a player posts on the forums asking for Muffin, instead of the actual rogue dev, to take a look at rogue mechanics.

    -_-
    Congrats Muffin, you're E-Famous

    I'd counter this suggestion with one MUCH simpler.

    Change Rift Scavenger to:
    When the Riftstalker uses a finisher, (s)he gains a shield that will absorb all incoming damage for 15 seconds. The shield will absorb 5/10/15% of the Riftstalker's Endurance score per combo point used.

    So if you have 3 points, you gain the following shields:
    1pt - 15% of your END
    2pt - 30% of your END
    3pt - 45% of your END
    4pt - 60% of your END
    5pt - 75% of your END

    Or just make it a flat heal. Whichever
    I'M RIFTSTALKING YOUR MUM!

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  9. #9
    Rob
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    why not just have items with block convert over to deflect for rogues? seems like that would be much simpler
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paikis View Post
    Congrats Muffin, you're E-Famous

    I'd counter this suggestion with one MUCH simpler.

    Change Rift Scavenger to:
    When the Riftstalker uses a finisher, (s)he gains a shield that will absorb all incoming damage for 15 seconds. The shield will absorb 5/10/15% of the Riftstalker's Endurance score per combo point used.

    So if you have 3 points, you gain the following shields:
    1pt - 15% of your END
    2pt - 30% of your END
    3pt - 45% of your END
    4pt - 60% of your END
    5pt - 75% of your END

    Or just make it a flat heal. Whichever
    I'd like to see this something like this as well, we really need something to scale with endurance.
    Last edited by Muffin911; 11-04-2011 at 05:22 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Talaren View Post
    You could remove the 3/3 Rift Guard reflect and make it 2/2 and add a soul point for this particular skill, only works in Guardian Phase.

    The bubble cap could be half of your health.

    It seems like that would make it easy.

    Planar Absorbtion -- In Guardian Phase 15% critical strike damage becomes a bubble for physical damage. Increased by 2.5% every 200 endurance caps at 50% crit damage. Cannot exceed 50% of maximum health.

    Thoughts on that Muffin? Seems easy enough to me.
    That sounds more interesting for sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Talaren View Post
    You could remove the 3/3 Rift Guard reflect and make it 2/2 and add a soul point for this particular skill, only works in Guardian Phase.

    The bubble cap could be half of your health.

    It seems like that would make it easy.

    Planar Absorbtion -- In Guardian Phase 15% critical strike damage becomes a bubble for physical damage. Increased by 2.5% every 200 endurance caps at 50% crit damage. Cannot exceed 50% of maximum health.

    Thoughts on that Muffin? Seems easy enough to me.
    I dunno about the rest of everyone, but I crit for about 200-300 damage in Guardian Phase, and not very often either. This looks like it would be absurdly weak.
    I'M RIFTSTALKING YOUR MUM!

    I've found that Warriors are like Feminists. They want equality when it suits them, but the rest of the time they want to be treated special.

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    Plane Walker Knightcrawler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paikis View Post
    I dunno about the rest of everyone, but I crit for about 200-300 damage in Guardian Phase, and not very often either. This looks like it would be absurdly weak.
    The idea keeps getting better though, say you always kept up a teleport.. all the random ticks of damage would stack up and probably help. I think the numbers would still need to be adjusted a bit. Seems like it would reward dodging or parrying an attack even more than currently. Giving you more time to stack up absorbs. Imagine how nice it would be on tank swap fights where you could stack up a 50% of ur hp bubble (7k-9k) for a smooth transition into ur turn to tank.

    It's NICE but it's still not quite enough to bring us up to par... yet... the numbers are easy enough to change and make it enough... maybe..
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    completely didn't see this thread before i posted this elsewhere. Sorry bout the wall of text, i got a little out of hand, but this was my idea to give a reason for tank gear and to fix our physical issues and scalability issues..... and low pt RS in pvp being OP issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by McWaffles View Post
    What I don't understand is Trion's resistance to even put us close to on par with other tanks in physical fights. To solve the issues of low point riftstalker survivability for pvp being a bit overpowered, AND silmeutaneously give us scalability and some boosts now I have these suggestions:

    1) Adjust Toughened Soul to give .06/.12/.18/.24/.3% armor per point spent in the riftstalker soul and 1% of your endurance added to base armor per point in the riftstalker soul. (15.3% flat armor boost with 51% of your endurance as a base armor boost, helping shadow guard and scaling with the multiplicative armor boosts from guarded steel, the other part of toughened soul, and Guardian Phase)

    2) Adjust Great Fortitude to give 1/2/3/4/5% endurance and an additional .75% endurance for each point spent in the Riftstalker tree over 31 (max of 20% for full RS investment).

    3) Adjust Exceptional Resilience to additionally reduce incoming damage from deflected attacks by 3/6/9%

    4) Adjust Ruthless Stalker to give it's current buff while in stalker phase, and while in Guardian Phase give a buff lasting 10 seconds that causes the rogue to gain a 100% chance to deflect the next incoming attack after a successful dodge.

    5) Replace Planar Switch with an ability called "Planar Focus"
    Planar Focus: 20 second cooldown
    The Riftstalker shrouds an enemy in planar energies, attuning themselves to the movements of that enemy for the next 60 seconds. The Riftstalker gains an additional 3% chance to dodge, parry, resist, and deflect incoming attacks from the marked target and generates additional threat from single target abilities based on the Riftstalker's endurance towards the marked target, but generates 30% less AoE threat. Only 1 target may be marked at any time and can only have 1 "Planar Focus" debuff on them.

    6) Add a passive root ability, "Focused Evasion" at 41 points into Riftstalker that causes planar strike to have a 5% chance plus .5% per point spent in the riftstalker soul over 41 to cause the riftstalker to gain 2% chance to resist and 10% chance to dodge an enemy affected by the Riftstalker's "Planar Focus" within 10 seconds, stacking up to 10 times. Dodging an attack or resisting a spell removes all stacks of this buff.



    To clarify, I'm not trying to suggest this for right now, but to come with the tank overhaul of 1.6. The logic behind these is based on that we are a little under on damage received from attacks that are not blocked, yet are still falling far short on avoidance. I made these suggestions with the increased deflect chance from guarded steel and other changes currently predicted for 1.6 in mind.

    The guiding principle behind these suggestions is to make 51 points in Riftstalker a viable physical tank while being undisputedly the best of the riftstalker tanking variations for boss encounters (we have 1 tank tree,it should be fully utilized), while reducing pvp dependency on low point riftstalker survivability.

    To keep with the idea of an avoidance tank, most of the changes address avoidance by adding procs from our primary avoidance, dodge, and additional chances to dodge through "Focused Evasion," causing avoidance to be a primary means of damage reduction.

    The slight boost to endurance and armor at 51 points in Riftstalker is to address our dependancy as an HP sponge at times of spike damage and to give a valid reason to take tanking gear over dps gear.

    The "Planar Focus" would replace a useless skill and add a core ability to the Riftstalker at 31 points, making it actually worthwhile, and fix the current situation of too much AoE aggro from Planar Vortex, while also adding scaling single target threat, which returns us to our (IMO) original role of a single target boss tank.

    The additional 9% damage reduction from deflected attacks and guaranteed deflect after a dodge would essentially fix our issue of currently low deflect chance by adding in additional methods of deflection and simply reducing the damage we take when deflecting.

    While we still would take spike damage, it would be less often and with a more consistent avoidance to offset it.
    i prefer feedback over flame and logic over "I don't like that"

    EDIT: sorta reread this, TO clarify, #4 the buff in guardian phase would trigger after plane shifting
    Last edited by McWaffles; 11-04-2011 at 03:20 PM.
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    Also, as to your suggestion, I would recommend rather than a percentage of your critical damage dealt, that you gained a percent of your endurance as damage that is aborbed. This would super simplify the description while being the easiest formula that directly increases the effectiveness of tank gear, without making dps gear better for us (more damage dealt).

    for example: Whenever the riftstalker deals a critical hit while in guardian phase, you gain a stacking absorption shield that absorbs 50% of incoming physical damage for an amount equal to 15% of your endurance. The total amount absorbed stacks up to 50% of your maximum HP.
    "You're just realizing the fault of your species, human beings are the most untrustworthy, backstabbing creatures on this planet. Except for bears."

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