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Thread: Bard fixes

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default Bard fixes

    This thread is to hopefully combine the thoughts of the community to create a compendium for the fixes/changes that are needed for the bard class as the bard is one of the least necessary classes in Rift.

    Feel free to post POSITIVE, HELPFUL ideas to maybe make some change to this class.

    ***FIX TO 'INVIGORATING SOULSTONE'***

    Reason: This greater essence adds 40 points to the health restored by the bards 'Coda of Restoration'. THIS IS NEGLIGIBLE IN MAYBE ALL SITUATIONS.

    FIX: Create a greater essence that refreshes ALL ACTIVE motifs after using a finisher such as Coda of Restoration.

    ***FIX TO CADENCE***

    Reason: This is a two-step process for my belief that 'Cadence' isn't the only problem to the main ability of our class. Cadence simply just does not do enough damage AND you have to remain stationary for this ability to work. The healing portion of this ability from 'IS' is debatable but not necessarily the biggest drawback.

    FIX: Change the ability called 'Invigorated Soul' from converting 33/66/100% to 10/20/30% or something on the lines of a lowered amount. THEN place it higher in the tree or make it one of those 'bard earns 1% more converted health for every point allocated past lvl 15'. THEN allow it to affect ANY damaging ability used by the rogue. This will allow the rogue to increase their dps and keep their heals reasonable.

    THEN FIX: Then you can do a number of things to 'Cadence' as you see fit.

    will edit upon good, positive feedback...

  2. #2
    Plane Walker Vera's Avatar
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    FIX: Create a greater essence that refreshes ALL ACTIVE motifs after using a finisher such as Coda of Restoration.
    Can't really fix inherent issues with the class by using items. More to the point, it would mean you'd need to use a greater just to get the benefit. Not sure this is much of a fix.

    FIX: Change the ability called 'Invigorated Soul' from converting 33/66/100% to 10/20/30% or something on the lines of a lowered amount. THEN place it higher in the tree or make it one of those 'bard earns 1% more converted health for every point allocated past lvl 15'. THEN allow it to affect ANY damaging ability used by the rogue. This will allow the rogue to increase their dps and keep their heals reasonable.
    I could argue with you for hours about why our healing shouldn't be increased, but I'm tiring of that argument. As for your idea... meh. One of the things people complain about is Bard not scaling. Having abilities scale within the Bard tree doesn't solve that issue, because the problem is Bard not scaling with gear. If you believe it's a huge problem, that is.

    While I like the idea of having Cadence healing scale with points in the Bard soul, it doesn't solve the actual problem.

    If you're going down that route, you could increase the healing from Cadence by 300-500%... but then give it a cooldown. Long enough that your HPS remains the same, but the healing you do is much more useful.

  3. #3
    Prophet of Telara Sozu's Avatar
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    I'd like to see them bring tiers of motifs. tier 1, tier 2, and tier 3. Can only use one of each tier at the same time then when you have used all 3 tiers you unlock "anthems" which are much stronger buffs with cooldowns. And you would basically juggle anthems around. Sort of like Minstrel in LOTRO. Makes for much more engaging rotations and different options for different situations. Being a buffing class is only fun when you actually need to think about what you're doing. Also like the FFXI bard. One of the best bards ever in my opinion!! Right now, Bard in Rift is totally mindless lol.

    But with that change you could greatly enhance each of the buffs since you'll only be able to use 3 at a time.

    Id also like to see bard crowd control enhanced some more too. Like make verse of fascination a target aoe instead of around the bard.

    Oh...Another awesome tweak...Give us a damn skill that allows us to single target Fanfare buff for 30 seconds for cryin out loud! So tired of having to split groups up lmao.
    Last edited by Sozu; 11-02-2011 at 05:57 AM.

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  4. #4
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    Vera, the change to the greater essence was not a fix to the 'class' but a fix to the essence itself. +40 points to Coda of Restoration is poor. An essence that refreshed every motif you had active would save you major time from spamming 5 separate keystrokes to the one finisher. This is easily 4-6 seconds worth of time saved which could be used in more dps or other abilities. And yes, this would be something I'd want in one of my greater

    And changing 'Invigorated Soul' could easily fix the problem that everyone is having. Yes, item scaling is poor for the bard but that doesn't mean the only way to solve this problem is by correcting bard scaling. As it stands now, every bard who allocates points properly puts 3 points into this ability so that 100% dmg is converted to heals. Reduce this so that you can increase the dmg output of the bard and keep heals reasonable so that the bard is not main healing their entire group. How is this not simple?? I am not asking for an upgrade in heals, I am trying to search for a way to keep heals as they are now while increasing the bard's dps.

    And Sozu, they ARE fixing the fanfares in 1.6. The bard will now be able to apply 3 fanfares to their group. And I agree, the bard is rather mindless but also ineffective as well.

    And with your tiers you mentioned they actually 'sort of' do this with the ability called 'Resonance'. The ability where once you activate MoB, MoF, and MoT you activate the 30sec +5% to all abilities buff. I would actually like to see more done with this.
    Last edited by Noobie Doo; 11-02-2011 at 11:19 AM.

  5. #5
    Prophet of Telara Sozu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noobie Doo View Post

    And with your tiers you mentioned they actually 'sort of' do this with the ability called 'Resonance'. The ability where once you activate MoB, MoF, and MoT you activate the 30sec +5% to all abilities buff. I would actually like to see more done with this.
    It's not the same as what i want. The fact that you can have all your motifs up at once is what is making bard so so so mindless. There's literally no thought involved in bard mechanics. It would be so much better if we could only play 3 motifs at once. It would also separate the good bards from the bad bards. Good bards will constantly be juggling different motifs whereas bad bards will always use the same 3. Sort of like how anthems are now. I always found it hilarious when before even pulling a boss people are asking for fervor. A good bard will change anthems on the fly depending on whats needed most. A bad bard will put fervor up and leave it up the entire boss fight. Take Zilas for example...No reason to have fervor up during the kite phase so good bards will put up competence then switch back to fervor when kite phase ends. I simply ask for the same sort of mechanics for motifs.
    Last edited by Sozu; 11-03-2011 at 03:37 AM.

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  6. #6
    Ascendant Adnoz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sozu View Post
    It's not the same as what i want. The fact that you can have all your motifs up at once is what is making bard so so so mindless. There's literally no thought involved in bard mechanics. It would be so much better if we could only play 3 motifs at once. It would also separate the good bards from the bad bards. Good bards will constantly be juggling different motifs whereas bad bards will always use the same 3. Sort of like how anthems are now. I always found it hilarious when before even pulling a boss people are asking for fervor. A good bard will change anthems on the fly depending on whats needed most. A bad bard will put fervor up and leave it up the entire boss fight. Take Zilas for example...No reason to have fervor up during the kite phase so good bards will put up competence then switch back to fervor when kite phase ends. I simply ask for the same sort of mechanics for motifs.
    Ill take a bad bard over a good bard then, don't **** around with my fervor!

    (Gear)

  7. #7
    Shadowlander Aldus Kalander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noobie Doo View Post

    And changing 'Invigorated Soul' could easily fix the problem that everyone is having. Yes, item scaling is poor for the bard but that doesn't mean the only way to solve this problem is by correcting bard scaling. As it stands now, every bard who allocates points properly puts 3 points into this ability so that 100% dmg is converted to heals. Reduce this so that you can increase the dmg output of the bard and keep heals reasonable so that the bard is not main healing their entire group. How is this not simple?? I am not asking for an upgrade in heals, I am trying to search for a way to keep heals as they are now while increasing the bard's dps.
    If the point is increasing Bard's dps without affecting healing, then let Cadence as it is, and increase scalation on Finishers (CoFury and CoWrath), Power Chord and Riff. Now Bards use the Dmg Finishers from another Souls just because it scales better.

    Deafening Music is ridiculous as it is now... NB's Coup De Grace are way better, for example.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noobie Doo View Post

    And with your tiers you mentioned they actually 'sort of' do this with the ability called 'Resonance'. The ability where once you activate MoB, MoF, and MoT you activate the 30sec +5% to all abilities buff. I would actually like to see more done with this.
    Liked the concept... we could make 'Resonance' trigger different effects based on Motifs played. For example, MoT + MoR + MoG could amplify CoR and VoV by 10% (when some emergency heals are needed), and with MoB, MoF, and MoT the % on abilities could be higher, like 10%. With a limit of 3 Motifs at same time, Motif's refresh are easier too.

    And about Motifs refreshs... i already have read thousands of good ideas about it here... i only hope that some dev read then too.
    yes, my main Soul as a Rogue is Bard...

  8. #8
    Soulwalker
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    One of the biggest problem with bards is that they heal. Remove the healing from the class, a bard is not a healer, it's support. And support is not healing whatever some of you might think. A support should be someone everyone needs/want for everything they can contribute. The contribution from a bard (support) should be buffs that substantially increase the effectiveness of other classes and other tools to help out, like good CC.

    Imo the bard should more or less be killed and rebuilt from the ground.

    If the bard should have healing it should only be some minor/medium selfheal. If the healing would be removed from the bard class the dps of the bard should ofc need a significant boost. Atm too many people play bard that are h*rny for big HPS, which probably aint completely wrong because of how the class is made, but if anyone play a rogue and wanna heal, go reroll a real healer.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morx View Post
    One of the biggest problem with bards is that they heal. Remove the healing from the class, a bard is not a healer, it's support. And support is not healing whatever some of you might think. A support should be someone everyone needs/want for everything they can contribute. The contribution from a bard (support) should be buffs that substantially increase the effectiveness of other classes and other tools to help out, like good CC.

    Imo the bard should more or less be killed and rebuilt from the ground.

    If the bard should have healing it should only be some minor/medium selfheal. If the healing would be removed from the bard class the dps of the bard should ofc need a significant boost. Atm too many people play bard that are h*rny for big HPS, which probably aint completely wrong because of how the class is made, but if anyone play a rogue and wanna heal, go reroll a real healer.
    Hey man, I totally agree with you. Can you go tell those CLERICS if they want to dps to roll another class? I mean the name cleric doesn't define "damage" more than it implies healing. Can you please tell all the clerics this?

    Thanks.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by DTM300 View Post
    Can you go tell those CLERICS if they want to dps to roll another class? I mean the name cleric doesn't define "damage" more than it implies healing. Can you please tell all the clerics this?

    Thanks.
    Why would I? Clerics got souls for dps so why shouldn't they be able to dps?

    What I say is that imo the bard soul is just totally crap from the beginning. Like Trion thought "Hmm we don't totally grasp the concept of support so lets throw in some healing to the bard to make them useful".

  11. #11
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morx View Post
    One of the biggest problem with bards is that they heal. Remove the healing from the class, a bard is not a healer, it's support. And support is not healing whatever some of you might think. A support should be someone everyone needs/want for everything they can contribute. The contribution from a bard (support) should be buffs that substantially increase the effectiveness of other classes and other tools to help out, like good CC.

    Imo the bard should more or less be killed and rebuilt from the ground.

    If the bard should have healing it should only be some minor/medium selfheal. If the healing would be removed from the bard class the dps of the bard should ofc need a significant boost. Atm too many people play bard that are h*rny for big HPS, which probably aint completely wrong because of how the class is made, but if anyone play a rogue and wanna heal, go reroll a real healer.

    I personally agree with a lot of what you said, especially since I've played the bard class in over 5 different MMO's now and this is the first to have the class focus on healing as much as it does. But with saying that, it's not entirely feasible to just reroll the class from a developer's point of view. The developers obviously had a vision for the bard class as well so changing it entirely is probably something they do not want to do.

  12. #12
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    Sozu, could you explain a little more in detail about the tiers? I think I understand but if we are to have any change our information should be detailed as best as possible.

  13. #13
    Rift Disciple Trufrost's Avatar
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    I didnt see the new posting on bard so ill copy and paste here: this is how i feel about the bard and i will be adding more
    Hey trion, this is a common bard. I will review how i feel about everything in the bard tree as well as some suggestions that might not hurt.

    I will start with the tree abilities then move on from there
    Good health- i would like this to be shared in a raid as a natural buff (can make it 5% so it not op).

    Bardic inspiration- instead of 3 seconds per point make it 6. alot of people are complaining because of the duration. having it at an addition 30 seconds would please most bards, as well as making us focus on other things like healing or dps.

    Talented composer- should effect all bard abilities.

    Anthem of Glory- actually have no issues with it at all its a great ability.

    Street Smart- i dont know what to do with this, it seems cool but maybe it should be like chance to refresh motifs by 3/6/9% would be more useful. definately change it to something helpdul for bard abilities.

    Invigorated soul- i love this ability but, if you can lower the amount of healing it does to increase our dps or vice versa. another option is to allow power cord to be affected by it also.

    Street performer- Should also be combined with Stage Presence.

    Power Cord- awsome ability, would like to see its CD Shorter but it is great as is.

    Street performer- increase The AP for all bard abilites by 6/12/18/24/30%

    Coda of fury- Should have coda of distress added to its dmg.

    Deafening Music- This is fine

    Extended Grief- Changed to incorporate fury instead of distress.

    Improved Anthem of competence- this should not be an upgrade worth putting points into. it should naturally have it.

    Riff- Great ability hands down.

    Coda of Restoration- Awsome ability wish it would scale a little more but, i know my limits.

    Triumphant Spirit- this is pretty cool, it would be nice to see an increase in healing by 5-10% More.

    Verse of fascination- please i beg you remove this ability, it is not useful in an raid envirnment or dungeons. thats why we have dominator for things like this.

    Resonance- i love this ability. it gives me a reason to keep my motifs up.

    Virtuoso- perfect 31 pt ability, but can we get the cooldown lowered please 2 min at least. i would love 1:30 but that may be a little much.

    That covers my tree Abilities and how i feel about it. i would love to have some feed back until we as the community can agree. Maybe if we can all get to the same conclusion it would reach the devs, instead of multiple different ideas.
    Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morx View Post
    Why would I? Clerics got souls for dps so why shouldn't they be able to dps?

    What I say is that imo the bard soul is just totally crap from the beginning. Like Trion thought "Hmm we don't totally grasp the concept of support so lets throw in some healing to the bard to make them useful".
    Why would you? Because bards always had healing just like clerics always had dps.

    Remove the dps souls from clerics then. That's akin to you saying remove healing from bards. They have motifs that heal (technically 1), and a finisher that heals, in addition to a cp builder that heals. Considering that cp builder is mostly what is used, I'm not so sure they just threw on the healing part.

    Bards would need an overhaul if you removed healing from the soul. If you raised the amounts they can heal for instead, they would be ok.

    Little bit easier to increase healing rather than overhaul.

  15. #15
    Plane Touched Cerium's Avatar
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    I originally rolled a rogue to play a bard but was terribly underwhelemed.

    Bards have historicly been a Jack of all trades, master of none. This Bard is a Jack of no trades, master of sucking.

    The best Bard mechanic I've ever played was in Vanguard where you essentially composed songs with your abilities. You combined, "Bars", "Cadences", "Melodies", and "Harmonies" to create custom songs for custom scenarios.

    Simple enough here too. Add like 4 of each and max them out at 3 Bas, 2 Cadeces, 2 harmonies, and 1 melody up at once and you can create some really cool custom song mechanics that allow you to build songs for specific situations. The majority of these could be higher up in the tree to allow for a more broad Jack-of-all-trades synergy sort of sould at the bottom levvels.

    Within 20 points you need soul points that Rifstalkers would want, Ranged DPS would want, melee Dps would want, and Support classes would want.

    All of a sudden you've got a rich rewarding deep soul tree that Synergizes well at low ends of the tree but retains that Jack-of-all-Tradeyness at deep levels.

    The second big option is to follow the old school Bardic lore and make them all about dragons and what not.

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