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Thread: Looking at the Bard *please* for 1.6

  1. #1
    Plane Touched Dominion's Avatar
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    Default Looking at the Bard *please* for 1.6

    1. Cadence - DPS scale with ap, HPS scale with ap (it needs to do more DPS/HPS than it does now!!)
    2. Cadence - 10 more meters please!!
    3. Cleanse - target or aoe based please
    4. Battle rez - yes please
    5. Bards play on the run, all abilities can be used while moving please
    6. A running tune please - so we can strum and run at the same time for a % of speed, say 60% and it effect the group/raid if point specced.
    7. Finisher - we have a healing finisher, and an AOE finisher, where is the big hitting dps finisher?
    8. Some type of tune to refresh our buffs, so it is one button refresh rather than every 22 seconds have to play them all over again.

    I think those 8 things would make the Bard a class that is enjoyable to play, right now our dps suck, our hps sucks, we cant battle rez, all we are doing is mashing buttons for raid buffs, and the gear or ap not scaling just makes us basically feel almost useless. Hell any raids these days, can do just fine without a bard.

    Bring us out of hiding and make us wanted!! and useful!!

  2. #2
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    For me the three issues are 1. The lack of scaling with equipment for the Bards signature abilities (their song buffs). 2. The very poor effect of most Bard buffs in 5 mans (they seem to be balanced for a 20 man raid - not groups). 3. The general repetitiveness of the gameplay.

    I drafted some ideas below. Some my own, some inspired by other players comments. Keep in mind Dexterity is just there as an example; another stat can be used instead if more appropriate. Similar buff scaling ideas could apply to Archons too.

    This is just a lisr of ideas to get some cogs moving not a list of demands - I'm aware using every single one of these would be a bit much.



    Fanfares – Now increases the relevant stats by xx% of the Bard’s Dexterity.
    (This is to add more meaning to the Bard’s equipment; the better your Dexterity the better your buffs.)

    Motif of Bravery – Now increases AP/SP by xx% of the Bard’s Dexterity.
    (Same reason as above).

    Anthem of Glory
    – Now increases Armour by xxx% of the Bard’s Dexterity.
    (You get the picture by now - this idea could potentially be applied to help a fair few stat buffs scale better)

    Fanfares – No longer overwrite the +40 stat buffs the other souls provide. They now stack with them fully.
    (Controversial I know - but I think it’s a bit silly that fully talented Bard Fanfares amount to nothing more than a +12 stat increase for the group)

    Fanfares – Fanfares are now cast simultaneously. One Fanfare spell to cast but it gains the additional buffs’ stats added to it via passives (like Annihilate on the PTS once did). Power with Str/Dex at 16 points, Knowledge with Int/Wis at 40 points.
    (Minor timesaving, quality-of-life change since all 3 Fanfares can be up at once following a PTS update).

    (new) Verse of Shielding – A shield that absorbs damage on one ally for xxx. Scales with Dexterity.
    (Adding another ‘active’ support abiliy to the soul. Was tempted by the idea of a small single target heal but this sounded more appropriate)

    (new) Verse of Enthralling – Charms a targeted enemy, forcing it to fight for you for xx seconds.
    (Charms are fun. Rift should have them! Again, it’s a more active support ability)

    (new 51pt) Verse of Ascension – Brings one ally back from the dead with full health. Can be used in combat. 10 minute cooldown.
    (A very long cooldown combat rezz)

    (new) Coda of Purity – Removes 1 Poison or Disease from allies. Maximum number of allies increases with Combo Points.
    (Again: More reactive utility - and a Cleanse just seems to ‘fit’ the Bard)

    Motifs – Significantly increased the potency of all Motif buffs.
    (To pair with the following…)

    Motifs – One Bard can now only play a maximum of 3 Motifs at once.
    (Again: Controversial. But the idea is to add some more tactical thought and skill to Motif use. You have to decide the best Motifs for the current situation rather than mindlessly refreshing every single one every 30 secs – Resonance will need to be altered as a result)

    (new) Choral Voice – A Bard form. When toggled on the power of certain Bard buffs is increased by xxx%. Buffs are limited to only the Bard and 4 allies in her group while active.
    (This is an idea to counter the poor contribution of Bards buffs in 5 man groups)
    Last edited by Kedon; 11-01-2011 at 12:47 PM.

  3. #3
    Rift Disciple Trufrost's Avatar
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    Bro i love some of your suggestions but really its not going to happen. i have been playing a bard as my main since the game came off beta. we use to be beast in the early days, we could out heal healers like 800 at tick from cadence. but we are not healers and it got nerfed horribly. i have all t3 gear and my cadence ticks for 200... its a sad day for bards. I think they want to just crap on us a little more everyday, until we can take the SH*t no more.
    Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance

  4. #4
    Qia
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    Champion of Telara Qia's Avatar
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    Bards are not meant to require skill and gear.
    Bards are not meant to contribute to the raid in any way besides refreshing motifs every 30 seconds.
    Ip

  5. #5
    Prophet of Telara Efaicia's Avatar
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    All good ideas Kedon, and I will support you and your posts fully.
    However like the poster above me, my faith in Trion to do anything whatsoever to make Bard, or any support for that matter, a functional full time role is lagging.
    Too much time with nothing having been done. Tera is looking more and more interesting.
    Last edited by Efaicia; 11-01-2011 at 01:04 PM.

  6. #6
    Rift Disciple Trufrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kedon View Post
    For me the three issues are 1. The lack of scaling with equipment for the Bards signature abilities (their song buffs). 2. The very poor effect of most Bard buffs in 5 mans (they seem to be balanced for a 20 man raid - not groups). 3. The general repetitiveness of the gameplay.

    I drafted some ideas below. Some my own, some inspired by other players comments. Keep in mind Dexterity is just there as an example; another stat can be used instead if more appropriate. Similar buff scaling ideas could apply to Archons too.

    This is just a lisr of ideas to get some cogs moving not a list of demands - I'm aware using every single one of these would be a bit much.



    Fanfares – Now increases the relevant stats by 10% of the Bard’s Dexterity.
    (This is to add more meaning to the Bard’s equipment; the better your Dexterity the better your buffs.)

    Motif of Bravery – Now increases AP/SP by 15% of the Bard’s AP.
    (Same reason as above).

    Anthem of Glory
    – Now increases Armour by xxx% of the Bard’s Dexterity. Tthis does not need to be changed.
    (You get the picture by now - this idea could potentially be applied to help a fair few stat buffs scale better)

    Fanfares – No longer overwrite the +40 stat buffs the other souls provide. They now stack with them fully. This would be awsome and make alot sense.
    (Controversial I know - but I think it’s a bit silly that fully talented Bard Fanfares amount to nothing more than a +12 stat increase for the group)

    Fanfares – Fanfares are now cast simultaneously. One Fanfare spell to cast but it gains the additional buffs’ stats added to it via passives (like Annihilate on the PTS once did). Power with Str/Dex at 16 points, Knowledge with Int/Wis at 40 points. This might happen i hope they do change it
    (Minor timesaving, quality-of-life change since all 3 Fanfares can be up at once following a PTS update).

    (new) Verse of Shielding – A shield that absorbs damage on one ally for xxx. Scales with Dexterity. Not going to happen. this should be a riftstalker ability.
    (Adding another ‘active’ support abiliy to the soul. Was tempted by the idea of a small single target heal but this sounded more appropriate)

    (new) Verse of Enthralling – Charms a targeted enemy, forcing it to fight for you for xx seconds.
    (Charms are fun. Rift should have them! Again, it’s a more active support ability) i dont like this and we have a cc that doesnt make us get attacked. better safe than sorry.
    (new 51pt) Verse of Ascension – Brings one ally back from the dead with full health. Can be used in combat. 10 minute cooldown. i really, really like this ability
    (A very long cooldown combat rezz)

    (new) Coda of Purity – Removes 1 Poison or Disease from allies. Maximum number of allies increases with Combo Points. this would make us needed.(Again: More reactive utility - and a Cleanse just seems to ‘fit’ the Bard)

    Motifs – Significantly increased the potency of all Motif buffs.
    (To pair with the following…)

    Motifs – One Bard can now only play a maximum of 3 Motifs at once.
    (Again: Controversial. But the idea is to add some more tactical thought and skill to Motif use. You have to decide the best Motifs for the current situation rather than mindlessly refreshing every single one every 30 secs – Resonance will need to be altered as a result) nah this is very silly this is not going to happen, dont ask for this anymore
    (new) Choral Voice
    – A Bard form. When toggled on the power of certain Bard buffs is increased by xxx%. Buffs are limited to only the Bard and 4 allies in her group while active. Whoa this is a bad idea(This is an idea to counter the poor contribution of Bards buffs in 5 man groups)
    I did a little editing maybe to justify some things but, nothing will change.
    Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance

  7. #7
    Plane Touched Dominion's Avatar
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    A Bard's cadence should be our main dps with a nice single target finisher, a t2/3 Bard should at least be able to pull 800+dps, while the healing from it should at least be about 4-500hps maybe ...

    Cadence:
    120 life damage (like it is now) + 100% dex (1 for 1 according to dex).
    then change the Invigorating Soul - heals upto 5 party or raid members for 40% of damage done, down from 100%.

    So my cadence with 716 dex hits for 836 every tic, while healing for 334 per tick. That would up the dps to where it needs to be and up the healing slightly.

    Single target finisher at max rank:

    1 point: 50
    2 point: 100
    3 point: 150
    4 point: 200
    5 point: 250

    all plus 100% of dex, so my finisher would be hit for 966, chance of criting 1449.

    The healing finisher and aoe finishers are fine.

  8. #8
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    ***FIX TO 'INVIGORATING SOULSTONE'***

    This greater essence adds 40 points to the health restored by the bards 'Coda of Restoration'. THIS IS NEGLIGIBLE IN MAYBE ALL SITUATIONS.

    FIX: Create a greater essence that refreshes ALL ACTIVE motifs after using a finisher such as Coda of Restoration.

    ***FIX TO CADENCE***

    This is a two-step process for my belief that 'Cadence' isn't the only problem to the main ability of our class.

    FIX: Change the ability called 'Invigorated Soul' from converting 33/66/100% to 10/20/30% or something on the lines of a lowered amount. THEN place it higher in the tree or make it one of those 'bard earns 1% more converted health for every point allocated past lvl 15'. THEN allow it to affect ANY damaging ability used by the rogue. This will allow the rogue to increase their dps and keep their heals reasonable.

    THEN FIX: Then you can do a number of things to 'Cadence' as you see fit.
    Last edited by Noobie Doo; 11-01-2011 at 11:16 PM.

  9. #9
    Plane Walker Vera's Avatar
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    Bards are not meant to require skill and gear.
    Bards are not meant to contribute to the raid in any way besides refreshing motifs every 30 seconds.
    Harder to play than Cleric DPS.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kedon View Post
    For me the three issues are 1. The lack of scaling with equipment for the Bards signature abilities (their song buffs).
    no buff scales with equip, this would make them or totally underpowered when undergeared or absurdly overpowered when in top gear.
    Once known as Nix-Zero


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  11. #11
    Soulwalker MadHatterMaddigan's Avatar
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    some good some bad

    1) battle rez is something we need badly. no matter if its same as chloro or cleric we need one. my wish would be a group rez as well as battle rez just cause it suits all of the aoe abilities.

    2) make the motif's able to macro. i hear alot about how easy it would make bard when its overly easy now. i can keep a 5 man alive through scarn in t2. i can save a party in most other situations to finnish the fight. i can tell you for a fact its not easy. most other classes can macro an entire rotation on one macro but bards cant? its bull!

    3) clense aoe or single target we could use it

    4) verse of joy needs to restore more to scale up. you now have clerics and mages with the ability to have a huge mana pool we should be able to restore more to them. nothing outrageous but it doesnt give enough.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hObKKGdx6zo

  12. #12
    Rift Disciple Trufrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadHatterMaddigan View Post
    some good some bad

    1) battle rez is something we need badly. no matter if its same as chloro or cleric we need one. my wish would be a group rez as well as battle rez just cause it suits all of the aoe abilities.

    2) make the motif's able to macro. i hear alot about how easy it would make bard when its overly easy now. i can keep a 5 man alive through scarn in t2. i can save a party in most other situations to finnish the fight. i can tell you for a fact its not easy. most other classes can macro an entire rotation on one macro but bards cant? its bull!
    I would say get rid of the motif of encouragement and place some thing like: motif of splender (sorry bad name) it adds 30 sec to all motifs or it would be a tree ability where motifs last 1 min.

    3) clense aoe or single target we could use it. i agree completely

    4) verse of joy needs to restore more to scale up. you now have clerics and mages with the ability to have a huge mana pool we should be able to restore more to them. nothing outrageous but it doesnt give enough. This is a touchy subject i think than making it scale more we should increase the duration or move it from a 51 point ability.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hObKKGdx6zo

    Thats my little edit hopefully you can agree
    Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance

  13. #13
    Rift Disciple Trufrost's Avatar
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    Hey trion, this is a common bard. I will review how i feel about everything in the bard tree as well as some suggestions that might not hurt.

    I will start with the tree abilities then move on from there
    Good health- i would like this to be shared in a raid as a natural buff (can make it 5% so it not op).

    Bardic inspiration- instead of 3 seconds per point make it 6. alot of people are complaining because of the duration. having it at an addition 30 seconds would please most bards, as well as making us focus on other things like healing or dps.

    Talented composer- should effect all bard abilities.

    Anthem of Glory- actually have no issues with it at all its a great ability.

    Street Smart- i dont know what to do with this, it seems cool but maybe it should be like chance to refresh motifs by 3/6/9% would be more useful. definately change it to something helpdul for bard abilities.

    Invigorated soul- i love this ability but, if you can lower the amount of healing it does to increase our dps or vice versa. another option is to allow power cord to be affected by it also.

    Street performer- Should also be combined with Stage Presence.

    Power Cord- awsome ability, would like to see its CD Shorter but it is great as is.

    Street performer- increase The AP for all bard abilites by 6/12/18/24/30%

    Coda of fury- Should have coda of distress added to its dmg.

    Deafening Music- This is fine

    Extended Grief- Changed to incorporate fury instead of distress.

    Improved Anthem of competence- this should not be an upgrade worth putting points into. it should naturally have it.

    Riff- Great ability hands down.

    Coda of Restoration- Awsome ability wish it would scale a little more but, i know my limits.

    Triumphant Spirit- this is pretty cool, it would be nice to see an increase in healing by 5-10% More.

    Verse of fascination- please i beg you remove this ability, it is not useful in an raid envirnment or dungeons. thats why we have dominator for things like this.

    Resonance- i love this ability. it gives me a reason to keep my motifs up.

    Virtuoso- perfect 31 pt ability, but can we get the cooldown lowered please 2 min at least. i would love 1:30 but that may be a little much.

    That covers my tree Abilities and how i feel about it. i would love to have some feed back until we as the community can agree. Maybe if we can all get to the same conclusion it would reach the devs, instead of multiple different ideas.
    Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance

  14. #14
    Rift Disciple Trufrost's Avatar
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    I hope trion does something nice for the bard, make them needed in raids. sometimes we raid with just an archon and i feel like i must always dps cause the numbers are everything. make bards stand out. please dont make out buffs overwrite anyone elses. or archons will replace us utterly.
    Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance

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