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Thread: To our beloved class leader.

  1. #1
    Plane Touched
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    Default To our beloved class leader.

    http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...-feedback.html

    Why don't we have a sticky thread like this? Where are we supposed to give you feedback on our current state of affairs (being that yes, you made us happy in 1.5 by giving us 2 band-aid specs. one which is only viable on fights where you can sit behind the mob, and the other which just got nerfed in the ground).

    Would really like a place where communications are open, so that we know that it's not gonna be nerf and run, nerf and run, nerf and run, quick buff to make you happy, then back to nerf and run.

    Also, Nightblade needs more dps to be viable in PvE. Current PTS changes are looking pretty nice, but the numbers still fall quite short of warrior dps. IIRC, rogues have less hp, less armor, and now NB only has 1 defensive CD deep in the tree (Which also has heavy penalties). Maybe the fact that the base damage on the NB finisher is lower than it is for the specs which are actually competitive on live atm?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kayos View Post
    http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...-feedback.html

    Why don't we have a sticky thread like this? Where are we supposed to give you feedback on our current state of affairs (being that yes, you made us happy in 1.5 by giving us 2 band-aid specs. one which is only viable on fights where you can sit behind the mob, and the other which just got nerfed in the ground).

    Would really like a place where communications are open, so that we know that it's not gonna be nerf and run, nerf and run, nerf and run, quick buff to make you happy, then back to nerf and run.

    Also, Nightblade needs more dps to be viable in PvE. Current PTS changes are looking pretty nice, but the numbers still fall quite short of warrior dps. IIRC, rogues have less hp, less armor, and now NB only has 1 defensive CD deep in the tree (Which also has heavy penalties). Maybe the fact that the base damage on the NB finisher is lower than it is for the specs which are actually competitive on live atm?
    Agreed, I don't know why we are the only class not getting dialogue with the class developer. I do use the feedback in game, but you get no acknowledgment.

  3. #3
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    what do you mean? since release we have been chucked one bone, MM spec and you know what? I HATE MM specs.

    I cant get near my MM build in melle, NO WHERE near it and before Im corrected by anyone bottom line If im a rogue and i go melle, I should have the highest ST dps in the raid. My only exception would be a mage and even then, he or she is ranged.

    Bottom line people are leaving in droves, fist time since game release that we canr scarpe 20 together, most of the rogue i play with have said fook it i'm off to play something else.

  4. #4
    RIFT Guide Writer Gyle's Avatar
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    This post really confuses me. Rogues have the most dynamic soul structure of any calling in the game. We have more viable specs, more versatility and nuance within those specs, and more nifty gimmick builds than any other calling, by a considerable amount. So much so that every other calling is admittedly jealous of the state of rogues in this game right now.

    Clearly the rogue dev's listen to what we have to say because they have done a very impressive job of balancing out our souls. They are working on the tanking soul right now, and i still think Bards are fine and I don't know what they are all complaining about, but their work on re-tooling the DPS souls and their synergy ha been a shinning success. Unless you read the forums, because people pretty much only post complaints here.

    Our class leader is doing his job, making sure rogues are balanced and have options, he does not have to talk to you while he does it.
    Hastati (50 warrior), Tsar (50 cleric), Tsaritsa (50 Mage)
    Guides: 51 Bladedancer, Bloodstalker, Nightblade
    DPS Rogue <Trinity>
    5/8 ID; HK Conqueror

  5. #5
    Ascendant Adnoz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gyle View Post
    This post really confuses me. Rogues have the most dynamic soul structure of any calling in the game. We have more viable specs, more versatility and nuance within those specs, and more nifty gimmick builds than any other calling, by a considerable amount. So much so that every other calling is admittedly jealous of the state of rogues in this game right now.

    Clearly the rogue dev's listen to what we have to say because they have done a very impressive job of balancing out our souls. They are working on the tanking soul right now, and i still think Bards are fine and I don't know what they are all complaining about, but their work on re-tooling the DPS souls and their synergy ha been a shinning success. Unless you read the forums, because people pretty much only post complaints here.

    Our class leader is doing his job, making sure rogues are balanced and have options, he does not have to talk to you while he does it.
    Problem is that rogue is being balanced within itself, infact their admitted goal was for our other souls to match sabodancer, not to match warriors. Which leaves us in this new MM nerfed-rogues-below-warriors-and-1.6-mages situation.

    (Gear)

  6. #6
    RIFT Guide Writer Gyle's Avatar
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    I really don't get where this "OMFG WE DO BAD DPS!!!" idea came from all of a sudden. The only people out DPSing me are warriors who out gear me, and other rogues who out gear me. If you are a rogue, and you don't feel like you do an acceptable amount of damage, i really don't know what to tell you, because i certainly do plenty.
    Last edited by Gyle; 11-01-2011 at 05:00 AM.
    Hastati (50 warrior), Tsar (50 cleric), Tsaritsa (50 Mage)
    Guides: 51 Bladedancer, Bloodstalker, Nightblade
    DPS Rogue <Trinity>
    5/8 ID; HK Conqueror

  7. #7
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adnoz View Post
    Problem is that rogue is being balanced within itself, infact their admitted goal was for our other souls to match sabodancer, not to match warriors. Which leaves us in this new MM nerfed-rogues-below-warriors-and-1.6-mages situation.
    Yup, who cares how adaptable we are. I dont care if I have a million specs, I just want the one I choose to be good.

    Excelling at nothing sucks.

    As for where we stand in 1.6, it's hard to say... but on the top end self buffed MM hits 2k dps (pre-nerf). Mages are already pulling 2150 with multiple specs, that leads me to believe it'll be under mages.
    Last edited by Mayi; 11-01-2011 at 05:00 AM.

  8. #8
    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gyle View Post
    I really don't get where this "OMFG WE DO BAD DPS!!!" idea came from all of a sudden. The only people out DPSing me are warriors who out gear me, and other rogues who out gear me. If you are a rogue, and you don't feel like you do an acceptable amount of damage, i really don't know what to tell you, because i certainly do plenty.
    it's the principle behind the nerfs that is the problem. the fact that the future is so influx that we have no idea what to expect next. and since nothing good has never happened in future tweaks we are all on the verge of simply quitting!!! roller-coasters are only fun when you are a child, as an adult you dont like getting thrown left and right over and over again.
    Useful Rogue guides since I don't want to answer 50 billion questions anymore:
    Marksman, Ranger, Nightblade, Blink'Blade, Asstalker, Assdancer, and finally The Hoko Spec™
    Hoko, teaching noobs the way of rogue pve until 12/20/11.

  9. #9
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hokonoso View Post
    it's the principle behind the nerfs that is the problem. the fact that the future is so influx that we have no idea what to expect next. and since nothing good has never happened in future tweaks we are all on the verge of simply quitting!!! roller-coasters are only fun when you are a child, as an adult you dont like getting thrown left and right over and over again.
    It's not a roller coaster at all. We started lower dps, most souls are balanced around being lower dps and when one finally got competitive for top spot - nerf. It doesn't take an idiot to figure out where the devs want rogues.... not because they hate rogues or anything silly like that, it's because we have a support soul. We're 'adaptable' so never excel at anything we do. I dont understand how mages fit in though.. class with a healer soul being top rdps. We get bard to compensate? **** trade.
    Last edited by Mayi; 11-01-2011 at 05:09 AM.

  10. #10
    Ascendant Adnoz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gyle View Post
    I really don't get where this "OMFG WE DO BAD DPS!!!" idea came from all of a sudden. The only people out DPSing me are warriors who out gear me, and other rogues who out gear me. If you are a rogue, and you don't feel like you do an acceptable amount of damage, i really don't know what to tell you, because i certainly do plenty.
    You obviously don't, since you felt that any rogue spec outdpsing you needed nerfing. I'm sure we'll see a OMG NERF BD CRYSTAL 15 SECONDS OF DUALISM IS SO OP from you next week.

    (Gear)

  11. #11
    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayi View Post
    It's not a roller coaster at all. We started lower dps, most souls are balanced around being lower dps and when one finally got competitive for top spot - nerf. It doesn't take an idiot to figure out where the devs want rogues.... not because they hate rogues or anything silly like that, it's because we have a support soul. We're 'adaptable' so never excel at anything we do. I dont understand how mages fit in though.. class with a healer soul being top rdps. We get bard to compensate? **** trade.
    lol, we started #1 dps as saboteur, 1.1 made us #2 dps with nb, 1.3 made us #1 dps with hoko spec, 1.4 made us #2 dps with sabodancer, 1.5 made us #1 dps with mm

    i was beating warriors in 1.0, 1.3 and 1.5, but not in 1.1 or 1.2 or 1.4, so for half of rifts history we have been #1 dps and ahead of warriors. to say that isnt a rollercoaster ride then i dunno what is. i've been a 50 rogue for a very long time, and i remember the days of being good, we did more dps at 1.0 than we do now as mm incase you are wondering, ofc warriors did too with their broken armor pen, but we had broken armor pen too so it was balanced and fair and fun, wtb 1.0 again

    p.s. beta 7 with vks and pre-nerf mm/bms was the best, this game was a carrot, it was insanely fun in open beta then got huge nerfs every patch since to take away the fun factor...
    Useful Rogue guides since I don't want to answer 50 billion questions anymore:
    Marksman, Ranger, Nightblade, Blink'Blade, Asstalker, Assdancer, and finally The Hoko Spec™
    Hoko, teaching noobs the way of rogue pve until 12/20/11.

  12. #12
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hokonoso View Post
    lol, we started #1 dps as saboteur, 1.1 made us #2 dps with nb, 1.3 made us #1 dps with hoko spec, 1.4 made us #2 dps with sabodancer, 1.5 made us #1 dps with mm

    i was beating warriors in 1.0, 1.3 and 1.5, but not in 1.1 or 1.2 or 1.4, so for half of rifts history we have been #1 dps and ahead of warriors. to say that isnt a rollercoaster ride then i dunno what is. i've been a 50 rogue for a very long time, and i remember the days of being good, we did more dps at 1.0 than we do now as mm incase you are wondering, ofc warriors did too with their broken armor pen, but we had broken armor pen too so it was balanced and fair and fun, wtb 1.0 again

    p.s. beta 7 with vks and pre-nerf mm/bms was the best, this game was a carrot, it was insanely fun in open beta then got huge nerfs every patch since to take away the fun factor...
    I've been playing since beta too, here's how I remember it:

    1.0 - warriors top dps, sab was good and made us about even - resulted in a nerf for sab (was mainly nerfed because of pvp QQ)
    1.1 - nb, but warriors still top dps (you need to group with better warriors)
    1.2 - started sabdancer - ahead of warriors
    around 1.3 - sabdancer change - devs endorsed sabdancer and gave us the 'boost next set of charges function', enough of a hit to again put us behind warriors
    1.5 - MM buff put us competitive with warriors - nerfed

    See a pattern here? Warriors have only ever been adjusted down to balance pvp, not pve.
    Last edited by Mayi; 11-01-2011 at 05:26 AM.

  13. #13
    Ascendant Adnoz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hokonoso View Post
    lol, we started #1 dps as saboteur, 1.1 made us #2 dps with nb, 1.3 made us #1 dps with hoko spec, 1.4 made us #2 dps with sabodancer, 1.5 made us #1 dps with mm

    i was beating warriors in 1.0, 1.3 and 1.5, but not in 1.1 or 1.2 or 1.4, so for half of rifts history we have been #1 dps and ahead of warriors. to say that isnt a rollercoaster ride then i dunno what is. i've been a 50 rogue for a very long time, and i remember the days of being good, we did more dps at 1.0 than we do now as mm incase you are wondering, ofc warriors did too with their broken armor pen, but we had broken armor pen too so it was balanced and fair and fun, wtb 1.0 again

    p.s. beta 7 with vks and pre-nerf mm/bms was the best, this game was a carrot, it was insanely fun in open beta then got huge nerfs every patch since to take away the fun factor...
    Havent you been telling us since launch that the warriors in your guild aren't very good?

    (Gear)

  14. #14
    Prophet of Telara Efaicia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gyle View Post
    and i still think Bards are fine and I don't know what they are all complaining about,
    Excuse me?
    The role that no rogue wants in a raid, where they have to /roll and whoever loses has to play bard, where the least geared bard newbie to the guild gets stuck until his gear gets better. The position you want your braindead stoner friend in because he is worthless.
    the mindless 12345 cadencecadence COR! cadencecadence 12345 VOJ! cadencecadence COR! 12345.

    Are you f*cking kidding me?????
    Bards are monotonous, repetitive and boring where nothing we do REALLY matters, especially the better you raids' gear gets. The class where even your token ability (VoJ) is questionable at the top tier. The class where your signature abilities NEVER F*CKING CHANGE. The class that is totally replaceable in anything other than a 20 man raid. The only role in game that gets treated like, "it is only a part time role, don't worry, you'll be in a REAL role (dps) soon"

    Hell, maybe you are that braindead stoner that is always playing bard, and are happy with it because, well, it takes no thought.
    Last edited by Efaicia; 11-01-2011 at 05:46 AM.

  15. #15
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Efaicia View Post
    Are you f*cking kidding me?????
    Bards are monotonous, repetitive and boring where nothing we do REALLY matters, especially the better you raids' gear gets. The class where even your token ability (VoJ) is questionable at the top tier. The class where your signature abilities NEVER F*CKING CHANGE.
    I think it's a matter of where people are gearwise. For noobie guilds doing T1 raids adding about 100dps per person sounds great because your raid dps is what, 10k?

    When geared people in T2 raids are hitting 50k raid dps on Sicaron, that 100 dps per person doesn't sound so great anymore (even though it's higher with the dps buff).

    I'm thinking it must be the player's perspective based on where they are in content. In early T1 raids 12 to a stat sounded great to me too.... Going from 400 to 412 is a larger increase then from 800 to 812.
    Last edited by Mayi; 11-01-2011 at 05:49 AM.

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