1.6 Rogue Tank Spec 44rs/17bd/5bard

[dMULLz]

44Riftstalker/17Bladedancer/5bard

Build i've been looking at making for 1.6. With Dexterity giving deflection it actually makes sense going into 5/5 Ambidextrous for 15% more Dexterity. Gives more flat damage reduction (Turn the Tide 2/2) that the previous 51rs/8rng/7bd, also giving more damage increase for higher threat (unsure if exactly needed, but it still helps.

With the changes to rogues in 1.6, Scatter the Shadows only seems to have its key uses for certain boss mechanics, such as the Greenscales breath early on in raiding. I primarily had to use it to save myself but with rogues not being as squishy as they were, it doesn't seem to reap the same benefit now.

Physical Wellness would be nice, if it actually GAVE 1500 health as well as increasing the maximum health of the players, but as of right now it only increases their max by 1500, but still doesn't save players from dying unless they are all healed that 1500 when it is gained.

[EmmaFrost]

Yep, 44/17/5 seems the best way to go. Thanks for sharing.

Side note: Only fight I'd use 51 over this for 1.6 would be Grugonim 2 tank and Estrode if all healers get MC'd.

[Taemek]

Avoidance based tanking in raids = fail.

Maybe this spec might work well for group based content, but forget it in raids.

[dMULLz]

Avoidance based tanking in raids = fail.

Maybe this spec might work well for group based content, but forget it in raids.

because 10% reduced damage, and 15% more dex aka more Deflection wasn't the aim of this spec? look at the spec before you assume its ONLY about avoidance.

Side note: Only fight I'd use 51 over this for 1.6 would be Grugonim 2 tank and Estrode if all healers get MC'd.

Can't wait for the day to see a rogue tank Estrode lol, prolly only see riftstalker for the achievement its self, and it'd be used by a melee most likely.

[EmmaFrost]

Avoidance based tanking in raids = fail.

See dMULLz response. You gain Damage Reduction, HP, and avoidance. The only thing you lose is Scatter the Shadows and Physical Wellness which dMULLz explains why.

In regards to your comment though, if you arn't maxing your HP/Avoidance/Mitigation as a tank, you're doing it wrong lol.

[Taemek]

There is a post around here somewhere with 51 rs vs this same spec.

Unless they have made a change to the hybrid spec in the past 2 days, 51 rs wins by something like 6% more mitigation over the hybrid.

[HeavyMetalLucidity]

There is a post around here somewhere with 51 rs vs this same spec.

Unless they have made a change to the hybrid spec in the past 2 days, 51 rs wins by something like 6% more mitigation over the hybrid.

im not convinced. i think im gonna keep using my 41rs/17bd/8rg raid spec. been working great for me.
http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...eIthuRzqzoM.xh

you can use whatever makes you feel safe though.

[Hellebron]

Doesn't work since Turn the Tide can't be kept up in most HK fights.

I took 17BD through the whole place, there's only a couple fights you can keep it up. Expect 50% uptime at most.

That said 46RS doesn't help either. So really it comes down to if it's worth losing Scatter and >2.5% mitigation for 15% Dex.

[Phantom Scony]

im not convinced. i think im gonna keep using my 41rs/17bd/8rg raid spec. been working great for me.
http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...eIthuRzqzoM.xh

you can use whatever makes you feel safe though.

A big question is what content you're looking to handle. Different specs perform at different jobs, at different levels, and we're only seeing half of the OPs "hypothesis".

Muffin's done all the math, and a big problem with 44/17/8 is Tricks of the Trade falls off all the time (you simply don't dodge/parry Raid bosses enough to make that a selling point). Additionally, the extra dexterity only comes out to a few total deflect percent, which is an equally small damage reduction amount compared to 51 RS.

Being "viable" and "effective" are different things. You can be neither, both, one, or the other.

Take for example, Trion adding a new boss. Lets assume for testing this boss does 1000 DPS to the tank.

Tanking, itself, is very simple, number-wise. How much healing you get, how much damage is done to you, and how much you mitigate/avoid. Effectiveness is a measure of personal score or ability. Viability is the scale your effectiveness is weighed against.

Lets also say a new Tank class can Mitigate/Absorb/Avoid 700 DPS when played at "100% effectiveness".

With 500 Healing per Second incoming, and avoid 700 DPS altogether, a boss that does 1000 DPS can be "viably" tanked. Now, if 100% effectiveness means you can avoid 700 DPS, but 50% effectiveness only avoids 350 DPS, then you cannot Tank the encounter. You are viable, but not effective.

Now, how this applies to you, is when Minmaxing the Riftstalker we have a few different builds. Some do better, some fall short. Using one that "falls short" may still lead to victory. It doesn't mean you did it any better or worse, because you accomplished the objective. But there are some instances where the margin of viability for Riftstalker is much smaller, requiring more personal effectiveness from our builds.

And yea, as others have said, avoidance is too unreliable to consider an option--Especially when Rift's Combat Table is about 10 different rolls to determine what happens to you.

[Taemek]

A big question is what content you're looking to handle. Different specs perform at different jobs, at different levels, and we're only seeing half of the OPs "hypothesis".

Muffin's done all the math, and a big problem with 44/17/8 is Tricks of the Trade falls off all the time (you simply don't dodge/parry Raid bosses enough to make that a selling point). Additionally, the extra dexterity only comes out to a few total deflect percent, which is an equally small damage reduction amount compared to 51 RS.

As I said, avoidance based tanking in raids = fail.

[Paikis]

44Riftstalker/17Bladedancer/5bard

Going to compare the quoted build to the standard 51/8/7 build.

By taking 44 Riftstalker instead of 51 Riftstalker you lose the following:
- 3.5% absorb from Rift Guard
- 7% END
- Scatter the Shadows
- Physical Wellness (meh)
- Planar Switch

By dropping ranger you lose:
- 4% damage reduction
- 5% hitpoints

By going 17 instead of 8 in Bladedancer you gain the following:
- 10 hit (meh)
- 15% DEX
- Turn the Tide (10% damage reduction)

By taking 5 bard you gain:
- 10% hitpoints

So basically, is 5% extra hitpoints, 15% DEX and Turn the Tide better than 7.35% damage reduction 7% END, a free combo point every 10 secs and Scatter the Shadows?

Looks about even honestly. It's going to come down to 'Can you keep TtT up?'. If you're only tanking a single mob (i.e raid tanking) then the answer is probably no. If you're tanking an instance then you probably can and it will turn into 15% dex vs StS and free combo points.

Personally I'll be staying with 51 RS for raiding, because always on is better than 'maybe'. For running experts I'll be using my DPS tank build

[Archemys]

Paikis : Great post.

I don't even know what my RS build is... I didn't really make it with tanking in mind. I made it for more of a solo/pve type build which it works pretty good for.

I need to switch things up later and see how I go.

[Pink Freud]

Would a safe bet be 51RS 10Ranger 5Sab, if they make Deflect scale well?

You get all the 51RS mitigation, plus the 6% from Bolster, 5% more health, you can take 2/2 Killing Focus which is an at minimum 4% increase in threat plus the 15% Dex bonus from Sab.

[Taemek]

Going to compare the quoted build to the standard 51/8/7 build.

By taking 44 Riftstalker instead of 51 Riftstalker you lose the following:
- 3.5% absorb from Rift Guard
- 7% END
- Scatter the Shadows
- Physical Wellness (meh)
- Planar Switch

By dropping ranger you lose:
- 4% damage reduction
- 5% hitpoints

By going 17 instead of 8 in Bladedancer you gain the following:
- 10 hit (meh)
- 15% DEX
- Turn the Tide (10% damage reduction)

By taking 5 bard you gain:
- 10% hitpoints

So basically, is 5% extra hitpoints, 15% DEX and Turn the Tide better than 7.35% damage reduction 7% END, a free combo point every 10 secs and Scatter the Shadows?

Looks about even honestly. It's going to come down to 'Can you keep TtT up?'. If you're only tanking a single mob (i.e raid tanking) then the answer is probably no. If you're tanking an instance then you probably can and it will turn into 15% dex vs StS and free combo points.

Personally I'll be staying with 51 RS for raiding, because always on is better than 'maybe'. For running experts I'll be using my DPS tank build

You just can't factor Turn the Tide in, because unless it is up 100% of the time, its a bad comparison. It might be up, but its probably not going to be up when you need it or want it.

Sure, Turn the Tide will likely be up alot in groups, but come 10 mans and 20 man content, you rarely Dodge and the only way to trigger it off is with Side Steps which is a 2 min CD.

[Taemek]

Would a safe bet be 51RS 10Ranger 5Sab, if they make Deflect scale well?

You get all the 51RS mitigation, plus the 6% from Bolster, 5% more health, you can take 2/2 Killing Focus which is an at minimum 4% increase in threat plus the 15% Dex bonus from Sab.

It isn't scaling well at all atm.

Unless Ailion changes it before live, I am still going straight for passive %dmg reductions.