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Thread: NB/RS heavy rogue builds - excessively overpowered.

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    Rift Chaser
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    Default NB/RS heavy rogue builds - excessively overpowered.

    I play a rogue, and I think it is so excessively overpowered I won't play the spec. Basically, they are damn near unkillable, but dish out TREMENDOUS damage. The popular FOTM one is 44nb/22rs, but there are better builds than this, and even more OP.

    Trion you need to move stuff higher into RS tree to preclude DPS-Rogues from rolling indestructible builds from the RS buffs and reactionaries. This is being abused - heavily.

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    Ascendant Bleeds's Avatar
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    The content of this thread is new and exciting.

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    Sword of Telara
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    So all the low level PVE RS tanks can just... what?

    1) The reflect from the shields is equivalent to Dom, WL or RB shields.
    2) The really big stuff is from NB, not RS. The only (non shield) actives RS has are Phantom Blow (6% less damage taken, 20 sec duration, 10 sec CD and tickles) and a damage reduction CD that is 30% less damage taken for 10 seconds. No NB/RS is using the shield finisher or armor finisher.
    3) The 44 point NB CD has already been nerfed.
    4) The 44 point NB CD will be gone completely come 1.6.
    5) All of the things that make this build dangerous are purgeable.
    6) This soul combo requires buildup. For me to get 2K Blazing Strikes on 801 valor targets I need to blow a channeled CD, build up Heat Stacks, teleported recently and personally have already done another finisher as I have all of them in a macro. Honestly, targets are usually either already dead by that point or my DPS alone will never get them down.

    This build is the direct equivalent of a Riftblade/Paladin build. My warrior has the exact same point spread, in fact. Teleports, elemental damage, 44 dps soul + 22 tank soul with a 0 point soul for passive/active defense.

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    Champion of Telara Hethroin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pink Freud View Post
    So all the low level PVE RS tanks can just... what?

    1) The reflect from the shields is equivalent to Dom, WL or RB shields.
    2) The really big stuff is from NB, not RS. The only (non shield) actives RS has are Phantom Blow (6% less damage taken, 20 sec duration, 10 sec CD and tickles) and a damage reduction CD that is 30% less damage taken for 10 seconds. No NB/RS is using the shield finisher or armor finisher.
    3) The 44 point NB CD has already been nerfed.
    4) The 44 point NB CD will be gone completely come 1.6.
    5) All of the things that make this build dangerous are purgeable.
    6) This soul combo requires buildup. For me to get 2K Blazing Strikes on 801 valor targets I need to blow a channeled CD, build up Heat Stacks, teleported recently and personally have already done another finisher as I have all of them in a macro. Honestly, targets are usually either already dead by that point or my DPS alone will never get them down.

    This build is the direct equivalent of a Riftblade/Paladin build. My warrior has the exact same point spread, in fact. Teleports, elemental damage, 44 dps soul + 22 tank soul with a 0 point soul for passive/active defense.
    I like this build. It's fun to play and is in no way stronger than say RB/Champ/VK in a group setting. In fact they both tote many of the same ability bullets:

    - Ports to target.
    - Build up to deal top DPS (apply short buffs to self / debuffs to target)
    - Primarily deal elemental damage
    - 50% heal debuff

    Trade-offs:
    - The rogue trades AE Fear, charge-root, short CD self cleanse, and offensive purge, to get a longer CD defensive set.
    - The rogue has to have a purge-able buff up to put a cleanse-able heal debuff on it's target, warrior's heal debuff is neither cleanse-able nor purge-able. The rogue gets supplemental healing from his. (arguably balanced)

    So I guess if we nerf the NB/RS we should probably also nerf the RB/Champ/VK, right?

    Approximation of the warrior spec in question.
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    Rift Chaser betty's Avatar
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    Lets nerf all the unkillable builds - the blue bars would be an obvious starting point

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    Quote Originally Posted by betty View Post
    Lets nerf all the unkillable builds - the blue bars would be an obvious starting point
    This

    /10 char

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hethroin View Post
    I like this build. It's fun to play and is in no way stronger than say RB/Champ/VK in a group setting. In fact they both tote many of the same ability bullets:

    - Ports to target.
    - Build up to deal top DPS (apply short buffs to self / debuffs to target)
    - Primarily deal elemental damage
    - 50% heal debuff

    Trade-offs:
    - The rogue trades AE Fear, charge-root, short CD self cleanse, and offensive purge, to get a longer CD defensive set.
    - The rogue has to have a purge-able buff up to put a cleanse-able heal debuff on it's target, warrior's heal debuff is neither cleanse-able nor purge-able. The rogue gets supplemental healing from his. (arguably balanced)

    So I guess if we nerf the NB/RS we should probably also nerf the RB/Champ/VK, right?

    Approximation of the warrior spec in question.
    Other than the fact that NB/RS has several times the survivability, several times the burst, your about right. You and your team focuses a RB and he dies in 0 time flat, your team focuses a NB/RS and he uses a 2 minute cooldown and finishes eating your cleric. The level of survivability and burst that a nb/rs can put out is insane. (got a screeny of fieryspike(thats the name of the melee finisher right?) critting for 2700 on my rb with 1000 valor 5% spell damage reduction from void and 10% from avatar of water.
    Last edited by jerwel; 10-28-2011 at 02:03 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moebro View Post
    I play a rogue, and I think it is so excessively overpowered I won't play the spec. Basically, they are damn near unkillable, but dish out TREMENDOUS damage. The popular FOTM one is 44nb/22rs, but there are better builds than this, and even more OP.

    Trion you need to move stuff higher into RS tree to preclude DPS-Rogues from rolling indestructible builds from the RS buffs and reactionaries. This is being abused - heavily.
    You're a rogue, huh? Umm hmmm.

  9. #9
    Sword of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerwel View Post
    Other than the fact that NB/RS has several times the survivability, several times the burst, your about right. You and your team focuses a RB and he dies in 0 time flat, your team focuses a NB/RS and he uses a 2 minute cooldown and finishes eating your cleric. The level of survivability and burst that a nb/rs can put out is insane. (got a screeny of fieryspike(thats the name of the melee finisher right?) critting for 2700 on my rb with 1000 valor 5% spell damage reduction from void and 10% from avatar of water.
    Again, that Blazing Strike required build up. As much buildup as a Storm Caller needs, except we can only do it single target melee range.

    A 44RB/22Pd/0VK has 10% from RB, 5% spell from VK, 9% spell from Pd, an admittedly gimped version of Blackout in the form of Stoneshield, more endurance and a lot of physical mitigation through armor/blocking. You can macro your 2h and 1h+shield abilities, have essentially 100% ranged uptime (for the same range as NB) and statistically more spammable teleports/charges through Planar Blade and Riftwalk, with Shield Charge thrown in for kicks.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerwel View Post
    Other than the fact that NB/RS has several times the survivability, several times the burst, your about right.
    Burst? LOL. The NB/RS build has ZERO burst. As was said already it has a huge buildup time to get any decent damage out of it. Try playing the spec sometime.

  11. #11
    Rift Master Arcticred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerwel View Post
    Other than the fact that NB/RS has several times the survivability, several times the burst, your about right. You and your team focuses a RB and he dies in 0 time flat, your team focuses a NB/RS and he uses a 2 minute cooldown and finishes eating your cleric. The level of survivability and burst that a nb/rs can put out is insane. (got a screeny of fieryspike(thats the name of the melee finisher right?) critting for 2700 on my rb with 1000 valor 5% spell damage reduction from void and 10% from avatar of water.
    ^^ This

    There is absolutely no way on this earth you can compare NB/RS to anything the warrior can put together, even if we got 96 points instead of 66
    http://www.siglaunch.com/sigs/any/2/2/3/7/7/4322377PXOFX.png Only the dead have seen the end of war

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moebro View Post
    I play a rogue, and I think it is so excessively overpowered I won't play the spec. Basically, they are damn near unkillable, but dish out TREMENDOUS damage. The popular FOTM one is 44nb/22rs, but there are better builds than this, and even more OP.

    Trion you need to move stuff higher into RS tree to preclude DPS-Rogues from rolling indestructible builds from the RS buffs and reactionaries. This is being abused - heavily.
    I agree its massively overpowered. However, they're removing Blackout and replacing it with a damage increasing talent, as well as nerfing Twilight Transcendence.

    Riftstalker isn't the problem or else there would be a lot more X/22rs builds that are broken. They just need to spread some of the mobility tools in RS to the other souls. Trying to play Sin or BD without points in RS is just a complete waste of time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xahz View Post
    I agree its massively overpowered. However, they're removing Blackout and replacing it with a damage increasing talent, as well as nerfing Twilight Transcendence.

    Riftstalker isn't the problem or else there would be a lot more X/22rs builds that are broken. They just need to spread some of the mobility tools in RS to the other souls. Trying to play Sin or BD without points in RS is just a complete waste of time.

    They are also giving you guys deflect, and you can go guard stance to be like sword and board warriors under pressure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJoyTheSilence View Post
    They are also giving you guys deflect, and you can go guard stance to be like sword and board warriors under pressure.
    Which reduces a large portion of our damage. Don't see a problem

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    Quote Originally Posted by jerwel
    Other than the fact that NB/RS has several times the survivability, several times the burst, your about right. You and your team focuses a RB and he dies in 0 time flat, your team focuses a NB/RS and he uses a 2 minute cooldown and finishes eating your cleric. The level of survivability and burst that a nb/rs can put out is insane. (got a screeny of fieryspike(thats the name of the melee finisher right?) critting for 2700 on my rb with 1000 valor 5% spell damage reduction from void and 10% from avatar of water.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcticred View Post
    ^^ This

    There is absolutely no way on this earth you can compare NB/RS to anything the warrior can put together, even if we got 96 points instead of 66
    Really? You both, seriously, think that you can't get as much dps, and as good of survivability from a warrior, and still have the mobility? Please give your heads a shake.

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