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Thread: Gyle's Beginner PvE Rogue Guide

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    RIFT Guide Writer Gyle's Avatar
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    Default Gyle's Beginner PvE Rogue Guide

    So, there have been a significant number of guides written since 1.5 on specific specs, and specific roles, but the few attempts I have seen at trying to combine it all into one guide have felt lacking to me. Thus, I am making my attempt. Since this guide is really intended for newer rogues who need some help understanding the rogue calling I think this guide should begin with leveling.


    Leveling:

    Rogues IMO are the most enjoyable class to both level, and play. There are a few different approaches to leveling however, from a solo perspective anyway.

    Ranger:
    The first that many people would bring up I am sure is leveling as a ranger. However, leveling as a ranger is very self explanatory IMO, so I won’t really be covering it here very well. Suffice to say put your points into ranger until you have the best pig you can get, then it is really up to you. You can put the rest of your points into MM for damage, or you can keep pumping them into ranger if you enjoy the way the spec plays. Remember, you are soloing, do whatever you want.


    NOTE: DO NOT use your pig pet in instances or the tank will kill you. And rightfully so, since your pet taunts it WILL pull threat off of the tank, and I believe its taunt will contribute to the taunt DR (diminishing returns) and can even make a mob (short for Mobile Object, meaning NPC) immune to taunt if it receives enough taunts in quick succession. (I might be wrong on the DR, but none the less it is super annoying, don’t do it, use the Wolf, or the Raptor they are better DPS anyway)



    BD/RS/Sin:

    This is by far my favorite soloing set up. By level 23 you would want your soul tree to look something like this http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1MVpM.Vbdh.V0xh.0m

    The purpose of this build is ultimately to have it look something like this http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1M...hR.0VRctzbmz0z


    And it can be used to solo everything from elites to chronicles once you hit level 50. IMO this is the most stable soloing spec rogues have. Now there a fair number of points that can be moved around depending on how you want to play this build, but the core ideas are the same for each.


    1. Survivability: Rift Scavenger is going to be the main source of your survivability until you reach the point in Assassin where you are able to use Leeching poison, and even then it will be relied on heavily to keep you alive. The trick to using this skill to your advantage is instead of focusing your attacks on the bigger mob in a group and killing off all of the little ones with AoE’s you will want to Twin Strike off of the little mobs. This is because every time a mob dies with Combo points on it, you will receive as much as 1/3 of your health back if you leave a full 5 Combo Points on it.


    This may mean not using a finishing move during the last 20% or so of the creature’s life, just to be sure that it dies with a full load of Combo Points on it. You can actually kill elites with this strategy starting relatively low, so long as there are a couple peon mobs for you to heal off of while Twin Striking. This will become even easier once you get Leeching Poison in the assassin tree.



    2. Damage: The main source of your AoE damage can be found in a very simple combination of Deadly Strike + Twin Strike. You might think that using Compound Attack would be better since it hits multiple targets, but in fact the 105% damage increase to Twin Strike damage for its next 3 swings actually does more damage overall. Not to mention using DS (deadly strike) instead of compound will help you focus down one specific target more quickly than the others, thus allowing for more than one Rift Scavenger proc once you get the hang of how to string them.

    For single target fights you will be using Keen Strike + Precision Strike or Quick Strike, with DS as your finisher. Once you get high enough into Assassin to get Puncture you will also want to be using that ability on CD (cooldown). You can macro all of these abilities into one button if you wish, but they can also be used without macro’s with little change in effectiveness for soloing.



    3. Stealth: Personally I think that stealth is an invaluable tool while leveling, especially if it is your first character. It allows you to get a lay of the land before you have to engage. You can chose which groups you want to pull when, watch for pathing, and in some cases skip encounters entirely and simply collect whatever your objective is and get out with minimal combat. Also starting an encounter with Assassinate front loads a fair amount of damage, and starts the fight with 2 CP’s (Combo Points) thus expediting your first finisher. Some people level without stealth, or don’t put the point into the perma-stealth once they reach it in the assassin tree. This is a matter of personal preference, but I recommend stealth heavily for newer players.



    4. Teleports: Teleporting with Stalker Phase on will increase the damage you deal, and improve your survivability at the same time once you put points into Rift Barrier. 15% damage absorption is nothing to sneeze at, as well since it reflects that damage back at your attackers, it will help add a small amount of AoE damage while it is up. Teleport as often as you need to too keep your damage buff and barrier up, but it is not really critical in the early stages of leveling. Just get the hang of it, and eventually it will become second nature to you.


    Both ranger, and BD/RS/Sin should work quite well as DPS specs while leveling in instances as well; there really is no need to have a separate DPS spec for dungeons unless you want one. These will work fine.

    Bard:

    If you want to put together a bard spec, the simple answer is go 51 bard. Put every point you can into Bard, and eventually you want it to look like this http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1M...dqiqskqz.x0x.V


    There are battle bard specs, and personal preference specs, but you can’t go wrong with a full bard spec when your role is support. Just keep all of your motifs up, cadence constantly, and use Coda of Restoration when needed. Once you get them you can also use Coda of Cowardice and Coda of Distress, these are AoE debuffs and will improve group damage for their respective damage types to every mob in the area for 60 seconds. They are not as good as Archon debuffs however, so in any case where an archon will be debuffing the target, do not use them unless instructed to.


    FERVOR!!!!!
    Once you get Anthem of Fervor, there is no single ability in the game that increases group DPS the way that Anthem of Fervor does, it is one of only two cost reduction abilities in the game and is 3% better (or 2%) than a Chloromancer’s Living Energy. These abilities fill the role of Haste in some other games, since you spend less time energy starved, you attack speed is effectively increased. The resist anthem sucks, and the Armor anthem sucks, don’t use either one of them, ever. There is no case I can imagine where one would have a bard, and either Fervor or Anthem of Competence (bard speed) would not be the ideal anthems to have up. In a group setting the resist buff or the armor buff are of thoroughly minimal use, and in a raid setting archon buffs are better anyway. Don’t use them.


    Tank:


    Tanking as a rogue is a blast, and since 1.5 it is much less of a liability. There are many tanking guides, and they all work for leveling tanks as well. Put all of your points into Rifstalker, and extras put into BD at first, then either Bard or Ranger, depending on personal preference. The best rogue tanking guide I am aware of can be found here http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...ion-1-0-a.html
    I will not be covering tanking again in this guide, as the above guide is far more in depth and much better than anything I could produce on the subject.

    Instances:



    Invariably you will want to test out your character in some instances while leveling up. There are a few things that I think everyone should know.


    1. Have many roles: The more roles that you are capable of filling, the more quickly you will be able to find a group. Even if you do not like to tank, at least get yourself a bard role so that you can queue as support. You may end up actually having to bard from time to time if the healer asks you too, but it is generally accepted that a support role is really a DPS role until support is actually needed.



    2. AoE like crazy: Rift is not like a fair number of other games, in that for the majority of dungeon pulls you will not be assisting the tank and single targeting one individual mob very often. Usually you will be AoEing everything down to expedite progress. This does come with some hazards; mainly you will probably have to give the tank a second to get some threat. Remember a good rule is, if the healer dies it’s the tank’s fault, if the tank dies it’s the healer’s fault, if the DPS dies it is your own damn fault so pay attention.



    3. Know your utility and use it (or don’t): If you are a Bladedancer, or a Marksman, use your interrupt/silences. If you have a purge, and you see that something has a buff up, purge it off. If you have an ability with a knockback DON’T USE IT. Nothing will piss your tank off faster (short of using a pet with a taunt, or taunting a mob yourself) than knocking mobs all over the place with Crossfire or Repelling shot. It is super annoying, and you ARE NOT HELPING. Stop that.



    4. Get a meter: If you are a DPSer, and you don’t have a DPS meter to tell how much damage you are doing, you should get one. This game has no in game method of checking to see if you need improvement. If a tank loses ago, he knows immediately, if a healer is not healing enough, people die. If a DPS is not DPSing enough…. There is no real way to tell other than “stuff is dying kinda slowly” Get a meter and compete with yourself. Don’t be a tool and link your parses all over the place like you are cool, I promise you, somebody out DPSes you, and even if they don’t, they will claim that they do and it will just devolve into a useless e-peen argument. You are competing with yourself, not them, unless they are out DPSing you, then step it up…




    Macros:


    Before I jump to level 50 specs, I want to touch on the concept of Macros. Some people don’t like to use them, but personally I maintain that if you are not using macros in Rift you are not playing at your full potential. Period. There are too many abilities, and too many things you should be paying attention to OTHER than your ability bar for your performance to be optimal without them. I have no intention of posting specific macro’s for each spec covered, however they will be in the individual spec guides in most cases. What I will be going over briefly is why macros are set up the way they are, and how to write your own. There are a few important commands that are commonly used in macros, and once you understand their use there is no reason to simply cut and paste with no idea how they work.

    #show ability name - will cause this macro to show the icon, as well as the tool tip and the cool down of this ability, regardless of how many other abilities you macro under it.


    Suppressmacrofailures - Type this as the second line in EVERY macro you make that has more than one ability, it will keep the game from spamming you with “you can only use one ability per macro” messages.


    /cast ability name - pretty self explanatory, the idea here is that you can input this command for as many abilities as you want, in whatever order you want, and the game will always cast the top one, unless it can’t, then it will cast the next one, unless it can’t, etc.


    An example macro from the above BD/RS/Sin spec would be.
    #show Puncture
    Suppressmacrofailures
    /cast puncture
    /cast precision strike
    /cast quick strike
    /cast keen strike


    Notice that Keen Strike is at the bottom, because it can ALWAYS be used, and if you put it above any other abilities, they wouldn’t ever be activated. This is not true in the case of OGCD (off global cooldown) abilities, but there are other more in depth guides for macros that cover them in more detail.

    Level 50:

    Ok, now you have hit level 50, this is when Rift actually starts. However this is also the point at which most of the guides out there come into play, and it can get a bit confusing. I will attempt to give a brief overview of some of the major specs so that you can get a general idea of them, then direct you to their individual guides for more in depth explanations.

    Ranged DPS:

    51 Marksman:

    There are many discussions about this spec, but generally the accepted top DPS build is some variation on 51 Marksman/15 Ranger. Personally I hate this spec, but it would be very irresponsible not to put it first and foremost in a guide. Never energy Starved, very high single target and AoE dps, tons of utility, easy transfer conceptually to PvP, and arguably the top DPS spec with full Hammerknell gearing all combine to make this spec a monster, and to a great many people, the only DPS spec you will ever need.

    http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...de-v1-5-a.html Here is a good guide for more specifics on Marksman.


    *note* due to the great energy reduction inherent in this build it works great for T1’s and T2’s with a cleric healer. In most builds not having at least Living Energy means a major DPS reduction, however in Marksman this is not the case.

    Saboteur:

    As with most specs there are a few points that can be moved around for personal preference, but ideally you will want your ranged Sabo spec to look something like this http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1M...dxkoRz.0VMcxcb

    This is a DPS increase over the old 44/20/2 build because of the post 1.5 scaling of the High Explosives DoT. Also it gives you the flexibility of being able to simply switch your zero point to BD for use on the Estrode fight.


    Typical rotation looks something like 5x Spike Charge, Detonate, 5x Blast Charge, Detonate, 5x Blast Charge, Detonate, repeat. Some people prefer to skip the second set of blast charges and use a Time Bomb, that is up to you, but I have always found this to be a DPS loss. In cases of AoE, the Saboteur rotation changes somewhat, for one, you substitute Shrapnel Charge for Blast Charge in the rotation. The other major change is that when talented to do so, Annihilation Bomb will spread spike charges to up to two additional mobs.


    Thus the AoE rotation looks something like 5x spike, Annihilation Bomb, Detonate, and then 5x Shrapnel on loop until Annihilation Bomb refreshes. On fights where there are multiple high hit point mobs, you can use the Carpet Bombing skill to allow you to throw 4 Annihilation Bombs with no CD, though I find that in the majority of fights nothing lives beyond 2 or 3 rotations of spread spike charges, they just do too much damage.


    No matter what rotation or build you use for ranged Saboteur, remember, Incriminate is not just your friend, it is everybody’s friend. Use it on CD.



    Ranger/Marksman Hybrids:

    There are a few Ranger/Marksman Hybrids that are worth noting. I do not play these builds so I have little insight into their strengths and weaknesses.

    Guides can be found at http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...optimized.html

    and http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...sozu-spec.html

    for 28 rng/38 MM and 34 rng/ 17 sin/ 15 MM respectively.




    Melee DPS:

    Melee DPS IMO is where the fun is in the rogue calling. There are more mechanics to look out for, and you are right in the thick of things and often anything other than flawless execution will wind you up either dead, or with lower DPS than your ranged counterparts. That’s said, I find these challenges much more enjoyable, so I prefer to melee any chance I get.

    51 point builds:


    There are only a couple of pure 51 point melee builds that come very well recommended. Oddly however, there really are no guides for these builds that I am aware of, I suspect mostly due to their rare use. Both 51 Assassin and 51 Blade Dancer builds can be viable with the right gear/rotation though in both cases there are RS hybrid builds that will out DPS them in almost every encounter at almost any gear level.

    51 BD may become one of the top rogue DPS builds with full Hammerknell gearing, but that remains to be seen. Test these specs if you like, they do sufficient DPS to run instances and do raid rifts and the like, but when it comes time for real raiding you will most likely want to look elsewhere for maximized DPS. 51 Nightblade is pretty much garbage, I wouldn’t even bother.



    Blink Builds:



    Some of the mechanics of these builds may be changing in 1.6 but as it stands right now these are some of the top DPSing melee builds around. As well, I don’t know about you, but they can’t give me enough teleports, I absolutely love them. Both of these builds have great mobility, high survivability, and top notch DPS. The teleportation behind mobs makes these builds a liability on some fights, but on the fights where they can be used, they are very formidable. As well, the Blink-Sin spec is quite possibly the highest DPS build rogues have short of possessing a 4 piece HK synergy crystal bonus, and even then it should be competitive.


    Blink Blade (Blade Dancer/ RS Hybrid) guide : http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...ide-1-5-a.html

    Bloodstalker (Assassin/ RS hybrid) guide: http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...ide-1-5-a.html

    or http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...dps-build.html

    Depending on whose guide you prefer.



    Both of these builds scale very well with Attack Power and will make significant gains with raid buffs as well. The better your gear is, the further these builds will pull away from Marksman so long as you get the rotations right.



    Other Melee Builds:

    There are a fair number of non-blink related melee DPS builds that can put up very respectable numbers. These builds won’t quite put up the same numbers as the blink builds, but they also won’t be completely useless on fights like Grug, or Scarn, or any other encounter with a tail whip. The most notable of these builds are the Mandancer, Nightblade and the Melee Ranger (Hoko Spec). I will not be including Sabdancer in this guide because it is the devil.



    Mandancer Guide: http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...ml#post3266826 (Hoko guide lol poor Zyzyx)


    Nightblade Guide: http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...ide-1-5-a.html


    Hoko Spec: http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...4-0-1-5-a.html



    In conclusion:

    In conclusion rogues are ****ing awesome and as of right now we have a TON of versatility with regard to what build we want to run. Don’t fall into the old Sabdancer trap and only run 1 build for every fight. Mix it up a little, see what builds you enjoy most, and play those. Pretty much every build covered in this guide is competitive. Perhaps not top DPS in the hands of a pro, but all of them CAN be top DPS in YOUR raid if you get good at them. Good DPS is not always about having the absolute top DPS sepc, it is about gearing for that spec, and nailing its rotation, while avoiding mechanics and performing whatever you assigned job is on a given fight. And being a good rogue is not always about being the top DPS.


    There are many cases, many fights where being the top DPS could not be less relevant, depending on your given task. On Zilas you might be killing/interrupting Ghosts, or imps, or you might be AoEing the center, or you might be chasing down mages. On Greenscale you may be killing pollen and Bracken. On Alsbeth you might be running crystals. Being a good raider > being top DPS especially when you are learning. You are helping your raid more by being the person that can be counted on not to miss an interrupt, or not heal Warmaster, or manage the DPS buffs on Grug than by always being the top DPS. The best players can be both, but if you have to pick one, find a spec that you can play well, and learn to be a good raider first. Min/Maxing DPS will become a priority for sure, but you will never get anywhere if you can’t be counted on for mechanics.


    I hope that my guide has been helpful. Have a nice day.
    Last edited by Gyle; 10-20-2011 at 03:24 PM.
    Hastati (50 warrior), Tsar (50 cleric), Tsaritsa (50 Mage)
    Guides: 51 Bladedancer, Bloodstalker, Nightblade
    DPS Rogue <Trinity>
    5/8 ID; HK Conqueror

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    I see you started with a good guide... But seems like you got lazy after the levelling part.

    First tell me that MM is still the flavor of the idiot spec, now it is the first one stated in your guide.

    If this is supposed to be a beginner's guide, you might want to start with giving people an actual guide instead of a link elsewhere, where they will only find the macro's, the spec, and that's it.

    Have a nice day.

  3. #3
    RIFT Guide Writer Gyle's Avatar
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    Well once i hit the level 50 portion i had trouble with the idea of just restating everything that was said in the individual guides for each spec. Seemed wasteful and unnecessary. My guide tells you why to look at each spec, and then links you to an in depth guide for that specific build. This is already super long. No reason to make it longer restating everything the original guide writers have already covered. I wanted to avoid the "Wall-o-Text" and TLDR issues.
    Last edited by Gyle; 10-20-2011 at 04:05 PM.
    Hastati (50 warrior), Tsar (50 cleric), Tsaritsa (50 Mage)
    Guides: 51 Bladedancer, Bloodstalker, Nightblade
    DPS Rogue <Trinity>
    5/8 ID; HK Conqueror

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gyle View Post
    Well once i hit the level 50 portion i had trouble with the idea of just restating everything that was said in the individual guides for each spec. Seemed wasteful and unnecessary. My guide tells you why to look at each spec, and then links you to an in depth guide for that specific build. This is already super long. No reason to make it longer restating everything the original guide writers have already covered. I wanted to avoid the "Wall-o-Text" and TLDR issues.
    This would be true if the individual guides were actually in-depth. Most of the guides you have linked are aimed at players that already have some sort of experience in the game.

    Remember, you're looking at fresh 50's here. Sure, the rotation itself already helps out people tons. But half of the build is just being simply ignored.

    Anyways, if there are any TL;DR & "Wall-o-Text" issues, they shouldn't be playing this game afterall. If you are not willing to gain knowledge about the build you are playing, then you're doing something wrong.

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    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
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    my sig has all the guides u ever need in it :P

    beginner ones are assdancer, blink'blade and hoko spec, rest are for top dps and hk raiding.
    Useful Rogue guides since I don't want to answer 50 billion questions anymore:
    Marksman, Ranger, Nightblade, Blink'Blade, Asstalker, Assdancer, and finally The Hoko Spec™
    Hoko, teaching noobs the way of rogue pve until 12/20/11.

  6. #6
    Shadowlander Xiloscient's Avatar
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    Good guide here Gyle

    More work for the community than most people do, this would be a great resource for new players or those who aren't rogue specialists
    Conqueror of GSB - Conqueror of RoS - 4/4 DH - 4/4 GP- 8/11HK

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    Shield of Telara Chaosoul's Avatar
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    Excellent Beginner Guide.

    There's no way to know how many silent forum readers will gain some very good tips from this over time. I commend you for putting something like this together for them. 5 Stars from me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Einstein
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    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.


  8. #8
    RIFT Guide Writer Gyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hokonoso View Post
    my sig has all the guides u ever need in it :P

    beginner ones are assdancer, blink'blade and hoko spec, rest are for top dps and hk raiding.
    I'm not going to lie, i found a post with your sig in it and used it to get my links to almost every spec guide in here... and yes most of them are yours.
    Hastati (50 warrior), Tsar (50 cleric), Tsaritsa (50 Mage)
    Guides: 51 Bladedancer, Bloodstalker, Nightblade
    DPS Rogue <Trinity>
    5/8 ID; HK Conqueror

  9. #9
    RIFT Guide Writer Gyle's Avatar
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    Shameless bump. I assume my guide is so good no one has anything to add to it, and that's why it has so few comments....

    I joke, but i do think this is a good learning guide and would appreciate some feedback on it.
    Hastati (50 warrior), Tsar (50 cleric), Tsaritsa (50 Mage)
    Guides: 51 Bladedancer, Bloodstalker, Nightblade
    DPS Rogue <Trinity>
    5/8 ID; HK Conqueror

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    My Rogue Compendium was strictly for HK tanking and ending up being more of an analysis between tanks from section 1.7 onward. For someone beginning tanking, I would send them to Devious's guide here:

    http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...ing-guide.html

    You may as well start mentioning with 1.6 coming out, dext will be a more important stat than it is now for tanking.

  11. #11
    RIFT Guide Writer Zyzyx's Avatar
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    Heres my lvl 50 pve dps guide

    http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...dps-bible.html

    Note: I will make a new post similiar to this when 1.6 comes out

    EDIT: lol poor me
    Last edited by Zyzyx; 10-25-2011 at 03:40 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

  12. #12
    Telaran
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    Guides? hmm anyways try adding some pictures Im a visually learner and I browsed through your guide saw no pictures and decided not to read it
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    RIFT Guide Writer Gyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nachielous View Post
    Guides? hmm anyways try adding some pictures Im a visually learner and I browsed through your guide saw no pictures and decided not to read it
    LOL, i will have to remember that next time. I did try to throw in some pretty colors to keep it visually interesting.
    Hastati (50 warrior), Tsar (50 cleric), Tsaritsa (50 Mage)
    Guides: 51 Bladedancer, Bloodstalker, Nightblade
    DPS Rogue <Trinity>
    5/8 ID; HK Conqueror

  14. #14
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    do you need a macro to control your pet?

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    RIFT Guide Writer Gyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brilliant View Post
    do you need a macro to control your pet?
    no, but you can macro your pets attack abilities into your combat macros in order to increase your DPS slightly, since for some reason pets don't seem to use their attack abilities on CD. I also pull the pet follow box off of my pet bar and put it on my normal hotbar, but it's not necessary.
    Hastati (50 warrior), Tsar (50 cleric), Tsaritsa (50 Mage)
    Guides: 51 Bladedancer, Bloodstalker, Nightblade
    DPS Rogue <Trinity>
    5/8 ID; HK Conqueror

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