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Thread: 6 Ranger vs 6 Riftstalker

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple sirdanile's Avatar
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    Default 6 Ranger vs 6 Riftstalker

    In my specs a very common thing to have is 6 points left to spend in a third soul.

    Benefits of 6 Ranger: 5 crit, 2% damage, 46 ap as a buff, ranged cast time bleed, ranged autoattacks.
    Benefits of 6 Riftstalker: 15% ap, 2% reduced Damage, 42 end as a buff, teleports.

    Up until now i've been using the ranger because of the utility, however my AP is now getting to the point where 15% ap is almost double 46, and my crit is getting closer to cap... is going riftstalker a better option?
    I place a black candle on your chest,
    the path of night is manifest.

    Sempresno Level 50 P6 Rogue/Marcosias Level 45 Warrior/Diclonius Level 26 Mage/Sumona Level 23 Cleric - Banished - Dayblind

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    Now, I have no idea what spec you are using, but IF you are using shadowfire, which I assume you are, then those 6 points in ranger are actually 6% damage.

    I found out last night that at 1000 ap, crit capped, 100 AP = 3% damage. I test this using the +100 AP shadowfire stone buff. I am at work and don't have the exact numbers, but they were about:

    Crit Swift Shot: 600
    Cast shadow fire and drop the shadowfire buff but keep the +100 AP.
    Crit Swift Shot: 618

    So for me, 100 ap = 3% damage and once you know that, which is better is just a simple math issue.

    This 100 ap =3% damage will only hold true for those skills that do not receive additional bonuses from AP (ie think Blade Dancer abilities).
    Last edited by Rowanze; 10-18-2011 at 09:19 AM.

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    Since every point you pull out of marksman or ranger, you will loose a flat 1% damage (from Master Archer or Shadowfire respectively), we can calculate a break even point pretty easily.

    We need to suck 5 points into RiftStalker, so we will loose 5% damage via lost points form shadowfire or master archer. Depending on spec, you might loose some other stuff, but lets keep this simple.

    In order to make up that 5% damage, we need minimum of 166 AP. 15% of 1100 is ~ 166. So there you have it. The break even point is 1100 AP.

    Anything over 1100 AP raid buffed and you should be using 5 in RS. My gut tells me that taking the 5 point of Marks is BAD, as you loose Silver Tipped, but taking out of Ranger might be more reasonable. [/B]

  4. #4
    Rift Disciple Storm301's Avatar
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    He isn't using shadowfire unless he's going 14 points into ranger.

    the 5% ranger crit doesn't effect the cap so you don't have to worry about that.

    If you convert everything to easier numbers to compare

    Ranger
    5% crit = 130crit rating (even though it isn't added this way and doesn't effect the cap)
    46AP
    2% weapon dmg

    Rift Stalker
    80ap? (I roughly deduced this number from what you said.)
    42 endurance
    Plane Shift

    The typical rogue equation is 1dex=1ap=0.5crit so

    Ranger is worth 111points for dps plus 2% weapon damage which is hard to calculate
    Rift stalker = 80 points worth of dps, and some extra endurance plus utility.

    Ranger is definitely more dps, but it all depends on how much you value extra endurance and the plane shift.
    Last edited by Storm301; 10-18-2011 at 09:35 AM.

  5. #5
    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
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    post your builds so we can critique/bash em, imo it just depends on the build, but none of the builds in my sig have 6rng or 6rs and they are all top dps builds so it also depends on what the build is used for etc... u may not need the extra survivability of rs, you may need 5% crit that you cant get anywhere else from ranger, we simply need more info...
    Useful Rogue guides since I don't want to answer 50 billion questions anymore:
    Marksman, Ranger, Nightblade, Blink'Blade, Asstalker, Assdancer, and finally The Hoko Spec™
    Hoko, teaching noobs the way of rogue pve until 12/20/11.

  6. #6
    Rift Disciple sirdanile's Avatar
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    Currently running
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1M...s.0Vkft0boz.Vz

    for pvp purposes, 38 NB/22Sin/6 Rngr

    Spikes incredibly high especially from stealth, seeing almost 3k crits on players plus weapon enchant procs and maybe scourge of darkness, fell blades and lethal poison are the enchants I run. The main issue with the ranger is that it's ap is a buff that takes you out of stealth whereas riftstalkers is inherent with a buff that isnt quite as bad to lose to a purge, but then there is the issue of the crit...

    Plane shift is useful for stealth situations or when I need to catch someone into 20 meter range where i'm most effective, however ranger helps jut as much because of quck shot and splinter shot.

    Also this is the only build that procs serrated blades at range... seeing dusk to dawn cause bleeding is amusing and helps boost fiery spikes usefulness, though it's a shame I couldn't fit in lingering flame, maybe could get 1 point if I dropped foul play, but that helps finish off healers...
    Last edited by sirdanile; 10-18-2011 at 07:18 PM.
    I place a black candle on your chest,
    the path of night is manifest.

    Sempresno Level 50 P6 Rogue/Marcosias Level 45 Warrior/Diclonius Level 26 Mage/Sumona Level 23 Cleric - Banished - Dayblind

  7. #7
    Rift Disciple sirdanile's Avatar
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    Other melee spec (Physical based) is 26 Riftstalker/24sin/16Marksman

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1M...xkbs.VcpchRboo

    But that one doesn't suffer from my "issue"... but other variations of nightblade wind up with 6 extra points... for example my living flame build is 51 night/6 rngr/ 9 Marksman
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1M...RGqgRss.Vz.x0L
    I place a black candle on your chest,
    the path of night is manifest.

    Sempresno Level 50 P6 Rogue/Marcosias Level 45 Warrior/Diclonius Level 26 Mage/Sumona Level 23 Cleric - Banished - Dayblind

  8. #8
    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirdanile View Post
    Currently running
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1M...s.0Vkft0boz.Vz

    for pvp purposes, 38 NB/22Sin/6 Rngr

    Spikes incredibly high especially from stealth, seeing almost 3k crits on players plus weapon enchant procs and maybe scourge of darkness, fell blades and lethal poison are the enchants I run. The main issue with the ranger is that it's ap is a buff that takes you out of stealth whereas riftstalkers is inherent with a buff that isnt quite as bad to lose to a purge, but then there is the issue of the crit...

    Plane shift is useful for stealth situations or when I need to catch someone into 20 meter range where i'm most effective, however ranger helps jut as much because of quck shot and splinter shot.

    Also this is the only build that procs serrated blades at range... seeing dusk to dawn cause bleeding is amusing and helps boost fiery spikes usefulness, though it's a shame I couldn't fit in lingering flame, maybe could get 1 point if I dropped foul play, but that helps finish off healers...
    in your examples id go with riftstalker, the plane shift + hp will outweigh the 5% crit, also 15% AP > 46ap by a good margin even at lower gear lvls, since you pvp a lot im sure your gear lvls will increase to the point of RS being much better. id consider one of the other nb/blink builds too as they work the best (44nb/22rs or 38nb/28rs) i dont have any guides for em but there are some very good ones on the front page here so shouldn't be hard to find.
    Useful Rogue guides since I don't want to answer 50 billion questions anymore:
    Marksman, Ranger, Nightblade, Blink'Blade, Asstalker, Assdancer, and finally The Hoko Spec™
    Hoko, teaching noobs the way of rogue pve until 12/20/11.

  9. #9
    Rift Disciple sirdanile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hokonoso View Post
    id consider one of the other nb/blink builds too as they work the best (44nb/22rs or 38nb/28rs) i dont have any guides for em but there are some very good ones on the front page here so shouldn't be hard to find.
    I'm definitely planning to run both to test them to see if I notice any differences, thanks for the input

    As to the "Other" Blink nightblade builds I find the playstyle is too jumpy and often puts me out of range of heals, while that's mostly my fault I also don't like relying on short term buffs and the odd switching of focus between nonphysical and physical damage that appears with riftstalker builds also turns me off from going too deep into the tree, Shadow assault/blitz are really nice... but they're physical damage along with annihilate and I don't have to be in melee range to be effective.
    I place a black candle on your chest,
    the path of night is manifest.

    Sempresno Level 50 P6 Rogue/Marcosias Level 45 Warrior/Diclonius Level 26 Mage/Sumona Level 23 Cleric - Banished - Dayblind

  10. #10
    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirdanile View Post
    I'm definitely planning to run both to test them to see if I notice any differences, thanks for the input

    As to the "Other" Blink nightblade builds I find the playstyle is too jumpy and often puts me out of range of heals, while that's mostly my fault I also don't like relying on short term buffs and the odd switching of focus between nonphysical and physical damage that appears with riftstalker builds also turns me off from going too deep into the tree, Shadow assault/blitz are really nice... but they're physical damage along with annihilate and I don't have to be in melee range to be effective.
    the buff they give to ur nb abilities is huge, and u dont use annihilate in pvp at all, try reading thru some of the guides, u might change ur mind after you read them.
    Useful Rogue guides since I don't want to answer 50 billion questions anymore:
    Marksman, Ranger, Nightblade, Blink'Blade, Asstalker, Assdancer, and finally The Hoko Spec™
    Hoko, teaching noobs the way of rogue pve until 12/20/11.

  11. #11
    Rift Disciple sirdanile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hokonoso View Post
    the buff they give to ur nb abilities is huge, and u dont use annihilate in pvp at all, try reading thru some of the guides, u might change ur mind after you read them.
    I've played the build, read the guides (in that order) and still don't like um. :P

    And annihilate is nice when you have the time to apply it :P

    Anyway, time to try it out!
    I place a black candle on your chest,
    the path of night is manifest.

    Sempresno Level 50 P6 Rogue/Marcosias Level 45 Warrior/Diclonius Level 26 Mage/Sumona Level 23 Cleric - Banished - Dayblind

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