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Thread: Rogue Feedback post 1.5

  1. #1
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Default Rogue Feedback post 1.5

    Since PTS is in relation to 1.6, I thought I'd write up some follow up feedback concerning abilities or general impressions on the different souls post 1.5 in regards to PvE. Feel free to add to this to offer your own feedback.

    Assassin - limited testing for me in this soul, with only having 5 roles I haven't played it live post 1.5. However, here are my issues so far with assassin:

    - some of the lesser abilities in the trees got buffed but the soul still revolves around certain key talents for dps. Physical trauma, serrated blades, magnify pain, puncture and backstab. I'm not sure if it's intentional or not, but I don't believe there are any good builds past 32 points. This might be intentional to balance pvp but a small buff would be nice to some useless talents. Weak talents are Advanced Flanking, Subterfuge, Cloak and Dagger and improved savage strike.

    Again this is in regards to pve, so for 51 assassin to be viable I would suggest buffing up improved savage strike (weak combo builder) and advanced flanking. There's a lot of savage striike spam in 51 point assassin builds and this would help bring up 51 assassin dps. Advanced flanking would be good to buff since it requires 25 points, so it would be a good place to improve assassin without potentially overpowering other builds by dipping into assassin. A buff to savage strike from advanced flanking would be another way to buff assassin while not allowing other overpowered builds.

    Bard

    I played bard a lot when the game came out... I'm one of the people who usually play healers who rolled a rogue because bards were overpowered healers in beta. Since raiding I find myself rarely playing bard except for solo specs and sometimes in raids because I enjoy healing.

    Issues with bard are many:

    It's boring, it's a 1 button combo builder class. Lots of builds use 1 button to build combo points (with a macro), so why is it an issue for bards and not for others? I think it's a mix of feeling ineffective and cadence is so limited. It's 20 metre range, which cannot be increased with the MM talent that increases range plus cannot be cast on the move. Plus a lot of times I'll be casting cadence and someone will die regardless of me 'healing' them.

    I know cadence does help for raid healing since it's smart healing, but you are powerless to stop deaths. If anything, most players besides bards feel bard's are worse at healing then bards do, I hear the term 'useless healing' a LOT from other players in regards to bards.

    So Bards real contribution feels like it's all done before the pull and refreshing motifs. Add to that that Bards can only heal 5/6th of the time because motifs are on a 30 second cooldown making it inconsistent healing... that feels weak.

    This is why in every guild I've been in, there has been no dedicated Bard. It's always lowest rogue on the totem pole gets forced to play bard because they can contribute less in other ways. This just adds to bard resentment amongst rogues. On top of this, players who play bard because they enjoy that role feel even more resentful about the current state of bards, since them playing the class they enjoy the most makes them the perceived lowest on the totem pole so to speak.

    Bard should be a class where someone can play a dedicated bard if they like without feeling that they're holding their guild back. If I can shine as a dps because of gear I should be able to shine as a bard with that same gear.

    Suggestions for Improving Bards:

    1. Make cadence usable while moving. This would help Bards a lot and add some fun factor to the class.
    2. Add a single target heal that's instant. A 'save death' ability so bards can say 'I saved you there' like other classes that heal.
    3. Allow MM to increase bards range like other ranged abilities. That would allow cadence's range to be increased to 25 meters.
    4. Change some of the Anthems that don't stack with Archon to new buffs that do. Add in more variety... like say double attack % chances, etc.. If you don't want to raise raid dps by too much, then add defensive talents like increase block, dodge, parry.
    5. Double the duration of motifs. Recasting them every 30 seconds does get tiring, most rogue buffs are set at 1 minute and bards should be no different.
    6. Verse of Joy does not scale, and it's not very good. Replace with 'verse of refreshment' that resets all CD abilities for everyone in raid. Something with some wow factor. With increased energy regen for rogues a lot of builds don't need energy, mages never need mana... so that one ability mainly helps warriors and clerics. Maybe move it lower in the tree but add a better 51 point ability.
    7. Add some utility, there's nothing in bard to help with encounter mechanics. Add in a purge AND an interrupt so bards can help with key mechanics in raids. People who play bards generally like the support role, and the Bard tree includes nothing to help with raid mechanics. It makes little sense that MM has a purge and interrupt and is now a high dps class and bard has nothing. This would go a long way to stop the complaint of bards that all they do is spam cadence.
    8. Another option would be a complete rework of the class.

    Bladedancer

    Limited testing here since the last change on PTS. The 4 point HK bonus might be enough to help the soul be viable, so I don't really have any construtive feedback to give.

    One gripe I have with the class is aoe. Twin strike was improved along with compound attack, but it might need a little something more.

    Marksman

    Has become a strong dps class. Only a couple of issues with MM.

    1. Sharpshooter - no change on the tooltip for hit for the ability and I can't tell if it's actually increasing my hit % at all. Might be a broken ability. I use a mix of pvp and pve gear while raiding so I'm at ~320 hit and I'm not hitting 100% of the time. I have a feeling it's broken.
    2. Crossfire - hits for less then fanout, since it's on a CD this can't be intended. Damage should be increased so it's more then fan out.
    3. Bull's eye - long CD ability considering it does so little. Does not increase the damage of every tick of Strafe like other class' auto crit abilities, for example cleric's auto crit effects on channels.

    Nightblade

    I have played nightblade a LOT since 1.5 trying to make it work, but I'm about to drop my NB build. The soul has some issues.

    Adding Nightrage onto Dusk to Dawn is bad. Dusk to Dawn is too high of an energy attack to work effectively in pve. I find myself waiting for energy to reapply it and then fiery spike drops off. Dusk to Dawn is REALLY annoying to use, enough so I plan on dropping nightblade.

    It's also behind in dps to other builds when fully optimized, especially blink blade and MM. Needs a couple of small tweaks.

    1. Move Nightrage onto Scourge of Darkness.
    2. Improve primal death - primal strike is spammed a lot with NB builds, and it's too weak of a combo builder. Hits for less then 1k on the dummy. I suggest changing primal death to also increase the attack power bonus of primal strike by 15% per point.
    3. Increase the duration on fiery spike to 15 seconds. Fiery spike is another thing that makes nightblade annoying to play. I shy away from all builds that make me stare at my cast or buff bars instead of focusing on raid mechanics while playing.

    Ranger

    Ranger is not in a good spot right now. Pets in general are underperforming, I believe it's tied to them not autoattacking as they should. The other issue is decreased mobility from shadowfire and casted abilities. Splinter shot is a dps loss unless you have the HK synergy crystal that reduces it's cast time. It really does need some serious buffs to make it a good soul to go deep in. Great up to 28/31 points, terrible with any points past 31. Here are some suggestions:

    1. Blood rage - Increase to 15% per point to pet damage.
    2. Improved Escape Artist - terrible ability, I doubt most players even have escape artist on their hotbars. Add a new ability that really increases the pet's damage.
    3. Splinter shot - make it standard 1 second cast time with the HK crystal bonus changing it to instant. Rogues have a 1 second CD so this won't have too much of an effect on dps, but it will make ranger more mobile with the crystal and people will use splinter without the HK crystal.
    4. Shadowfire - same as splinter, casted abilities are not good.
    5. Feral Instincts - increase to 5% crit for player and the pet. Higher abilities in the tree should always be better then lower variants in the tree. Right now everyone uses Predatory Instincts.
    6. Feral Aggression - reduce the cooldown to 1 minute.
    7. Diffuse - replace with a passive in ranger that increases player damage, it's the perfect point placement in ranger at 44 points so it can be used as an ability to buff higher ranger builds only.

    Riftstalker

    I have not tanked at all since 1.5 so I can't offer any good feedback. Whether that's telling in itself or not I don't know.

    There are a lot of players who're in a better position to comment on Riftstalker then me.

    Saboteur

    Saboteur was gutted with the last changes on PTS. I feel they were unnecessary, poor feedback was offered by players who didn't test themselves who claimed that people would still be forced to use saboteur post 1.5 which was not true.

    Please change Saboteur to how it was pre-nerf on PTS for 1.5. Increase high explosive's damage again and increase shrapnel charge's aoe damage to 50%. Otherwise, Sab is a dead soul... probably one of the only dead souls that is not even dipped into by any competitive builds.

    I'm one of the minority too who actually enjoyed sab and played ranged sab. If sab were changed back to how it was ranged sab would still be high enough that it would be playable.

    Bombs were improved so they're not a dps loss, but since they're on CD they should have their damage increased a little as well.

  2. #2
    Rift Master Yoma's Avatar
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    Yeah, DtD is pretty fail for pve.
    its also fail that a heavy BD build is _maybe_ competitive with the HK 4 piece crystal and tons of AP.
    Other builds are competitive without any Crystal (MM)
    BD should have some bleeding high up in the tree. 51 Bd has nothing that deals damage over time. If you stop dpsing for 2 secs, your dps is 0. so youre forced to take 8 SIn or more for serrated and some venoms. A Heavy BD build is way more hard to play than MM and not realy delivering.

    it also sucks that MM turns out to be the next sabdancer. pls nerf this one somehow.
    A ranged build pulls more than every melee build, can be used in melee and is easy as **** to use.
    not to mentions its AOE dps.
    why bother with any melee builds?
    the funny thing is i told this a dev before 1.5 with parse etc but nothing changed.

    that leads me to the conclusion that MM is OP on Trions purpose.
    Last edited by Yoma; 10-17-2011 at 07:52 AM.

  3. #3
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    Good post. Just a couple of my thoughts:

    I think Riftstalker was a bit overdone. The fact that we can pick up 20 points in our tanking tree and end up with nigh-top dps builds is, frankly, ridiculous. Not to mention juggling the teleports, while fun, is a pain in the neck to put it lightly.

    It also has the side effect of the FotM 44nb/22rs build, which is overtuned.

    We have somewhat more variety now than we did pre-1.5, but the main problem was not resolved at all, it was just shifted to a different build. Marksman is now the best PvE and PvP damage build, and you can use the exact same build for both. People complained up and down about having to play Sab. What do you think is going to happen in a month/two months when everyone gets sick of Marksman for everything? It's the highest dps build, is ranged, and you can use it in melee with no issues. That's more broken than Sabdancer ever was.

    Saboteur is dead. RIP. I think it is my favorite soul and the most unique one Rogues have, but its main problem was not addressed at all, namely its lack of synergy with other trees. No, I don't count a special mechanic with Deadly Dance as synergy with another tree. It's a crutch. It still does okay, but it's basically only used now in the case of a tank needing help with aggro.

    Nightblade is showing some real promise. There is still theorycrafting on the "perfect" placement of points for a deep Nightblade build, but from parses I've seen it's giving Marksman a run for its money. It's appealing due to the high physical mitigation in Hammerknell. Also, I agree that the Nightrage mechanic is gimped at best. Add Nightrage to Scourge of Darkness instead. Done.

    Bladedancer is terrible other than a smattering of points in the teens for those builds that incorporate Deadly Dance.

    Assassin I haven't tinkered with (I'm not really a fan of the skulking in shadows playstyle, preferring more in-your-face stuff), but by all accounts anything over 32 is a waste of points. I'd like to see deep Assassin builds good for something more than stunlock-ganking solo players in Stillmoor.

    Ranger I won't really comment on other than agreeing that deep Ranger isn't really worth it. The pets do not scale well.

    As far as Bard goes: where to start? This soul is not fun. It's not rewarding. It's a glorified buffbot that anyone could g15 to run without any other input and it wouldn't make any significant impact on the raid. I ran a gsb/ros raid last night with another guild on my server where they pugged the last 3 spots. They designated a bard from one of their number and it came to light during the raid that the player barding had delegated the job to his 6-year old to play. If one can do that and nobody notices without being told, there's a clear signal that the soul is terribly implemented. Player skill should matter and currently it doesn't. As long as you can do two buffs, cast 5 motifs and pop Verse of Joy on cooldown, you are doing 90% of any other bard.

    Barding shouldn't just be the job you give to the worst-geared rogue on the run, the job that everyone complains about having to do. It should be one you play because you can make a big impact on your raid. It's the worst soul in the game, hands down.
    Last edited by Caelan; 10-17-2011 at 07:53 AM.
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  4. #4
    Rift Disciple Wight's Avatar
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    On the Riftstalker, my main soul, we're looking good right now. We're still behind for tanking certain physical-intensive bosses in HK but I guess I'm cool with our current situation. Since they said they'll be revisiting Riftstalker to address the issues on the next patches, I'm happy with the Soul right now. Teleporting is awesome, one of the coolest and most creative things in the whole game.

    On the Bard:

    1. I agree with Cadence being usable while moving.
    2. A single target heal would definitely help, but with Virtuoso and Restoration spamming we can do quite the healing.
    3. MM increasing range of Bard... Eh. Nah, Cadence should have bigger range, not be increased by MM, I disagree with you here.
    4. Don't think I agree with it either.
    5. More duration for Motifs or a way to renew all of them together. If we had a button to renew all Motifs at the same time, I wouldn't even mind if they were 20 seconds instead of 30.
    6. Verse of Joy is wonderful. My raid loves it.
    7. I think we have enough tools already. Maybe a purge, but it's not really THAT necessary.
    8. A rework of the class might be an exageration.

    In general, I agree Cadence spamming is boring. Cadence should have bigger range and be castable while moving. It would make quite de difference already. Maybe the fix to the boring factor is some reworking in Riff.

    I agree with Caelan that Bards are now somehow marginal. Anyone who can renew Motifs, spam Cadence and use Joy in every cooldown can pretty much help as a Bard already, even if not optimal. Bards should be more complex and rewarding to play, agreed 100%.

    As for the DPS souls I can't say much, not in my area of expertise.

  5. #5
    Champion ShazzamCrucia's Avatar
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    51 Sin is a great pvp spec, period, and doesn't need to be changed.

    Heavy BD is still crap. Period.

    Nightblade is a cool soul but needs adjustments to make rotations less clunky (increase fiery spike duration, keep dmg the same).

    I don't understand the QQ about sabo; yes the AE dps was nerfed somewhat but it is still competitive. There are some fights (mobile) where I'm still top dps with 46sab/20sin.

    The tanking changes are amazing. Planar strike and vortex need their threat generation nerfed heavily - 30% at least. Physical mitigation is still a bit low - my personal feeling is that our physical and magic mitigation need to be separated into two mutually exclusive specs via 20pt+ bladedancer; this has already been accomplished to an extremely minor degree but to me would make more sense than allowing us both in 1 build. Great steps with dps tree synergy as well.

    Bard could use some playstyle love - they are pretty effective in terms of output but can be kind of meh to play.

    Heavy ranger is still a complete joke outside of using intercept in pvp as a lolfest.

    All of the 21pt infiltrator abilities are on stupidly long cooldowns.


    What can I say about MM - nerf VM functionality on multiple targets. Single-target damage is great and I'm very happy with where this tree is in pve now - we needed ranged dps very badly overall for raid utility. See my sig for feelings on fan out.
    Last edited by ShazzamCrucia; 10-17-2011 at 08:47 AM.
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  6. #6
    Plane Touched
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    My Bard PvP build is 44 Bard and 22 RS for survivability. Picked up Planar Refuge and Rift barrier and I honestly believe so far, it's the best PvP build I have found.

    I want to say though. being able to cast Cadence while moving would be such a TREMENDOUS help. This is what makes bard almost Non-viable in PvP. Having to channel a spell and not move, AND, wrack up CPs in order to heal make this the most difficult/worst healing soul in the game for PvP. Make cadence castable while moving, I think it would start to be a good PvP option.

    Sometimes I find myself kiting and using Rift every three seconds just to get CPs to get off a heal. Our instant cast heals that are big enough to save us take CPs or have a long *** CD and is rarely available. Even Chloro gets a bigger heal every 10 seconds Vs a 1 min CD for a smaller raid heal or having to byuild 5 CPs to get an even remotely decent heal off.

    Again, not trying to qq, but I think the cadence change could make bard a great PvP option.

  7. #7
    Plane Walker
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    Add me to the list of ppl playing bard...cause-i'm-the-lowest-geared-rogue-in-the-HK-raid-club.

    Keeping up 5 motifs on the current timers is crap.Then there's the Molinor fight.Trying like hell to get 5 points on either named while having to move soo much and couple this with the stpuid 20 meter range is just annoying. VERY Annoying.

    Now on occasion, I'm able to hit virtuoso, and spam some healing. But TBH, I wish I could do it more. Virtuoso's CD is way WAY too long. I would like to see a battle res for bards too. If we're not gonna be able to heal very well, sit there like buff bots, and can't dps for crap because we're typically tied to 51 specs for Verse of Joy? Then I should be at least useful in gettiing my fallen troops back in the fight.So, bards need serious help.

    Moving onto the other classes. I don't like BD much. NB is very cool. I use Sin for pvp, about all it's good for imo. MM is in a good spot right now. I don't tank, but RS does have some good def. abilites for use in PvP builds.

    I've always hated Sabdancer. Yeah I played it, but the rotations were too long for my taste. Also Having to "pre-charge" everything for a decent output is lame. Make the charges do damage like a Ranger or MM's attacks do. I always felt like bulding the charges was DPS I could be doing.Sure the bleeds are supposed to make up for it.But That's just me. Never liked that soul.

    Rangers could still use some love. They are "ok" when your leveling with the pet. But high end PvE now perfers the MM for ranged attacks (I don't blame rogues for switching. I hate Pet managing). I can't attest to Warrior VS Ranger pet damage. Is it pretty even? Someone else can maybe answer that.I also know almost no one uses a pet in PvP. Its a dead giveaway, and you'll get pwned when the warriors spot it.

  8. #8
    Plane Touched Soull's Avatar
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    i like the nightblade soul a lot. works well for me, and i can reliably outdps my other melee specs with it on boss fights.

    DtD, i have 2 issues with.

    1) if SoD is active, DtD does not work with it. meaning none of your ticks of DtD will have SoD added with it.
    2) its more beneficial to activate DtD, and cancel it out after 2-3 ticks rather than let it run its duration. for a 31 point talent, you'd think it'd be a bit better to use.

    fiery spike, i feel would be better if lingering flame would let it refresh off of all NB finishers. meaning i wish it would work with SoD like it does with BS and FT.

    i'm fine with primal death TBH. primal strike isn't used all that much with if you pair assassin with NB (which you should). with backstb, puncture, dusk strike, twilight force, fiery chains all being used, primal strike rarely gets any use. buffing it would be a minimal dps increase, and you'd be better off putting those points into other talents.
    Last edited by Soull; 10-17-2011 at 09:57 AM.

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    Another suggestion for Cadence would be when cast on a friendly target you eliminate the AoE heal and make it a single target channeled heal. It also builds CP on the friendly target for the aoe finisher heal (name escapes me)

  10. #10
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soull View Post
    i like the nightblade soul a lot. works well for me, and i can reliably outdps my other melee specs with it on boss fights.

    DtD, i have 2 issues with.

    1) if SoD is active, DtD does not work with it. meaning none of your ticks of DtD will have SoD added with it.
    2) its more beneficial to activate DtD, and cancel it out after 2-3 ticks rather than let it run its duration. for a 31 point talent, you'd think it'd be a bit better to use.

    fiery spike, i feel would be better if lingering flame would let it refresh off of all NB finishers. meaning i wish it would work with SoD like it does with BS and FT.

    i'm fine with primal death TBH. primal strike isn't used all that much with if you pair assassin with NB (which you should). with backstb, puncture, dusk strike, twilight force, fiery chains all being used, primal strike rarely gets any use. buffing it would be a minimal dps increase, and you'd be better off putting those points into other talents.
    Actually, that's a perfect fix - change Lingering Flame so Scourge of Darkness renewns Fiery spike. Fiery spike issues gone, no longer annoying.

    The reason why I say to buff primal death is because one of the main reasons why all melee builds except BD dip into multiple souls is for combo builders. We're used to it, but is it right?

    For higher point builds to be competitive the main issue is the standard combo builders are bad. Bladedancer is the exception with keen strike. If savage strike and primal strike were buffed it would allow 40ish+ point builds to be viable. Sure nightblade can dip into assassin for backstab and puncture, but it's a magical damage themed class. Improve primal and 51 NB might even be good. Myself I'd prefer not to put any points past 17 in assassin in a nightblade build. Increase the size of the crits and call it a day.

    As for bards - some people feel the anthems are OK as is. I mean, you can only apply 1 so runspeed or fervor are the best anyways, so why would you need more. That's true to a point, but variety is good too. As it is none of the other anthems are used because they don't stack with archon buffs.

    Verse of Joy - some people like it and some people don't. Back when the game released bards would macro 'using verse of joy blah blah blah'. Do bards still do it? None that I know. Ask others how good verse of joy is, you'll find that everyone assumes it helps someone else more then them which is why it's needed. It's useful, but not needed.

    I think purge and an interrupt would be great on a bard myself. I like contributing to mechanics. As it is, when you dole out assignments it's usually 'yes we have a bard, OK don't die' and that's it. It would be nice to be more involved.
    Last edited by Mayi; 10-17-2011 at 10:29 AM.

  11. #11
    Rift Disciple Wight's Avatar
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    If Verse of Joy wasn't VERY useful, raid bards would just spec 44 in bard and increase their DPS with other trees. In my guild, all HK bards still announce in RW when they're using Joy, for example (usually me when I'm not tanking or our backup when I'm tanking). Joy is an excellent boost to heals, DPS etc.

    As for the anthems, Defiance and Armor usually don't have much use in raids, I agree. In some fights I switch between Defiance and Competence for a certain boss skill but quickly go back to Competence (we always have Clover up so unless the Clover guy dies, I don't use much Fervor).

    I think the real points are related to Cadence (bigger range & being castable in the move) and how boring the Bard rotation is. A battle res would be nice, as some people remembered, and I agree. As for the single target heal, it should be a CD skill (like 2 minutes) to keep Bards not being real healers, but support. I don't like the idea of casting Cadence at a friendly target. Bards aren't healers, they're off-healers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wight View Post
    If Verse of Joy wasn't VERY useful, raid bards would just spec 44 in bard and increase their DPS with other trees. In my guild, all HK bards still announce in RW when they're using Joy, for example (usually me when I'm not tanking or our backup when I'm tanking). Joy is an excellent boost to heals, DPS etc.

    As for the anthems, Defiance and Armor usually don't have much use in raids, I agree. In some fights I switch between Defiance and Competence for a certain boss skill but quickly go back to Competence (we always have Clover up so unless the Clover guy dies, I don't use much Fervor).

    I think the real points are related to Cadence (bigger range & being castable in the move) and how boring the Bard rotation is. A battle res would be nice, as some people remembered, and I agree. As for the single target heal, it should be a CD skill (like 2 minutes) to keep Bards not being real healers, but support. I don't like the idea of casting Cadence at a friendly target. Bards aren't healers, they're off-healers.
    I don't understand the idea behind "bards aren't healers, they're off healers". Why not open the possibility of improving them as off healers or improve their single target heals to allow them to be true healers.

  13. #13
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreyloch View Post
    I would like to see a battle res for bards too. If we're not gonna be able to heal very well, sit there like buff bots, and can't dps for crap because we're typically tied to 51 specs for Verse of Joy? Then I should be at least useful in gettiing my fallen troops back in the fight.So, bards need serious help.
    Just noticed this and someone else mentioned a bard battle rez. I waver back and forth on if getting a battle rez would be good for bards. In other games I've played bards (I think) and palladins both had battle rezes and their complaint was always 'I'm the rezbot class'. If it comes between a cleric and a bard rezing, bard would always be first to rez.

    It could be good and it could be bad - good becaues it would encourage different cleric builds and they wouldn't feel forced to only take builds with a brez, bad because bards would become rezbots.

    It would help, but might lead to complaints 3 months down the road when people forget why a battle rez was added to bard in the first place.
    Last edited by Mayi; 10-17-2011 at 10:59 AM.

  14. #14
    Plane Walker Alder's Avatar
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    Couldn't agree more with everything the OP stated. Bard needs some serious work to make it into an actual skill class instead of a buff bot.

    I'll reiterate:

    -raise the range on Cadence. (allow it to be channeled while moving)
    -double the motif duration so we can actually contribute besides spending 20% of our time refreshing them.
    -give us abilities to use in that extra 30 seconds (battle rez, cleanse, and more instant heals.)

  15. #15
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    Hi i play a mage. i think rogues did need a buff my problems with 1.5 is that MM has the most range dps and if you have ever played a mage you would know all are souls are range dps and the class that can only range dps doesnt have the highest dps is well kinda sad why even have a mage in your group or guild or anything when MM has more range dps. but i do believe MM should have competive range dps. Example MM is fighting a pyro. The pyro use heat wave now a bad MM would keep attacking a good MM would use Eradicate to get rid of heat wave. Also RS\NB against mages it pretty op now the reason why is because mages dont have enough purges to get rid of there buffs.The only purges we have is degeneration and consumption. Degeneration is a 3 sec channel that gets rid of a buff every sec,30 sec CD. Consumption gets rid of 1 buff 5 sec CD. and idk if iam right but my rogue friends tell me a lot of the buff dont have CD or have short CD. Now i would like to have more purges or the buff could have like 30 sec or 1 min CD

    oh and i really think assassian didnt need a buff just my opinion

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