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Thread: Rogues dumbed down... the new 1 macro wonder

  1. #1
    Champion of Telara
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    Default Rogues dumbed down... the new 1 macro wonder

    We all used to complain about wars needing just 1-2 macros and still top DPS. Most Wars will argue that this is just simply not true, but the fact is them mashing those few macros will still give them very good DPS. However, the difference between a good war and a bad one is very noticeable. Similarly geared, the better player can put out quite a significant difference in DPS.

    Previously for rogues, the difference was even more stark. A good rogue put out significant DPS.... still behind wars by a bit, but they are given a run for their money (good rogues beat 1 button macro wars any day). A bad rogue was however obvious to see. They are about equal or fall behind mages in DPS even.

    Come 1.5, I have noticed quite a few things during the last few raids. 1stly, war's are still doing very good dmg. The nerf they got in 1.5 was negligible in PvE... so to all the wars whining about how they've been nerfed over and over, grow a pair and play properly. Wars are still amongst the top DPS'ers, way ahead of mages/clerics.... just now that rogues are starting to be on par with them.

    2nd and more importantly, its the rogues that I'm concerned about. I know whom are the bad rogues in my raids. They have good gear, but they are far from what you would call skilled players. Pre patch, they were way behind on the DPS charts. Post patch, they now match wars toe to toe (the good wars btw), while admitting that they mainly just do 1 macro and a few other buttons occasionally. The rogues who used to be good are flat out beating wars, albeit by not a very big margin.

    The difference between a good war and a bad one can easily come up to 300+ DPS or more. The difference now between a good rogue and a bad one is barely 100 DPS. I'm not one to believe the MMO's in general require a lot of skill... but could appreciate how it could count for something previously. We all know rogues will be nerfed soon, but I'm just a bit disappointed that the rogue mechanic was somehow changed to make it such that 'skill' plays such a small difference in the class.

  2. #2
    Ascendant TheDrizzle404's Avatar
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    wait, is this about pvp or pve?

  3. #3
    Champion Highland's Avatar
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    I'm a rogue and im my guild im topping dps with "bad" gear, our warriors aren't doing the job they should do, and that's noticeable.

    Nevertheless bad rogues vs. good rogues, thats surely an obvious difference, the main difference you see is while movement, other tasks etc. I still pull the same or more dps then them.
    when im pulling over 2k the bad rogue with better gear is at 1400.

    See? That's a big difference! Skill is definitely noticeable and gkickable. 2 things are to be noticed:
    DPS and movement out of bad spots/situations, dying is worst dps so basically those players you don't want. The main problem this game is having is that there isn't much choice in players. They either are in the top-guild, they transfer, or quit the game.

    Blightweald - DPS Rogue and apparently best bard EU - 14k Achievs

  4. #4
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    PvE.... PvP is a bit too complicated to go into.


    Ok... maybe the 'bad' rogues in my raids are not as bad as yours... nevertheless, the difference has significantly narrowed post patch. Previously the DPS gap was easily 500+ ST (assuming no deaths). Now its barely 100. This is based on the same 3 rogues that always take part in our raids.

  5. #5
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    Reviving this because its starting to get old.

    I do mostly healing, so its no big hit to my epeen.... but seriously, poor skill rogues doing top dmg in almost every mass activity (WF, invasion boss, DRR etc) is starting to get very annoying.

    I am ok with you being skilled and having high DPS. The variation amongst war's is a good example.... bad war's just plain suck in the DPS charts and can lose out by as much as 30%+ vs good wars. The difference amongst mages is less, but skill still plays a part. The difference between good and bad rogues.... not so much. Previously, skilled rogues had an outstanding dmg differential compared to bads. Now, they're close enough that it just makes the rogue callling as a whole look dirty. I definitely hope MM get's relooked for PvE.... I'm ok with them having their current DPS if played well, but they should suffer when played poorly... but its kind of hard to screw up '11112....'. The difference between MM and other rogue specs is so great that rogues who were previously doing well using other specs are now forced to switch to MM just to be competitive (even though they may dislike the play style).

  6. #6
    Plane Walker Agobi's Avatar
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    Well it's a good thing you posted your opinion and your perceived differences...(with no actual numbers and/or facts to back them up whatsoever)

    Trion will surely take these things into account for their future path for the game.

    /sarcasm

  7. #7
    Rift Master Yoma's Avatar
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    Yeah Sabdancer was easy but now MM is going to top parses with even mor ease.
    Trion supports baddies, they play to play.

    there is no hardcore raiding in rift. builds and bosses are just to easy.

  8. #8
    Shadowlander
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    my only rebuttal is all rogues suck, and this game doesnt even require skill. How is it skill when theres videos and guides on youtube and other sites that basically tell you what to do? This crap isnt even a game, its more like a badly written high school play with a ****ty script trion wrote with 'directors' online telling you where to stand and what to do. Everyone presses the same damn buttons, plays the same damn role, then trion gives you the 'illusion' of a choice with all these souls. The worse thing about this crap is you're paying monthly for it. Have fun getting trolled by Trion, except people smart enough to cancel their scripts til this crap goes f2p like everything else.

  9. #9
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    I dont know why you are suprised, there is no skill involved anymore. Even my 12yo dressed in blue gear is pulling 1400 dps st. I laugh, never played rift? Dont worry, have some crafted gear copy this build, here are the macros, just press this button over and over. Its awesome they have succeeded in making the rogue the biggest noob class to date, which is why 50% of the game is playing it, you can completely suck and do very well as a rogue.

  10. #10
    Ascendant LOveRH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by masakari81 View Post
    We all used to complain about wars needing just 1-2 macros and still top DPS. Most Wars will argue that this is just simply not true, but the fact is them mashing those few macros will still give them very good DPS. However, the difference between a good war and a bad one is very noticeable. Similarly geared, the better player can put out quite a significant difference in DPS.

    Previously for rogues, the difference was even more stark. A good rogue put out significant DPS.... still behind wars by a bit, but they are given a run for their money (good rogues beat 1 button macro wars any day). A bad rogue was however obvious to see. They are about equal or fall behind mages in DPS even.

    Come 1.5, I have noticed quite a few things during the last few raids. 1stly, war's are still doing very good dmg. The nerf they got in 1.5 was negligible in PvE... so to all the wars whining about how they've been nerfed over and over, grow a pair and play properly. Wars are still amongst the top DPS'ers, way ahead of mages/clerics.... just now that rogues are starting to be on par with them.

    2nd and more importantly, its the rogues that I'm concerned about. I know whom are the bad rogues in my raids. They have good gear, but they are far from what you would call skilled players. Pre patch, they were way behind on the DPS charts. Post patch, they now match wars toe to toe (the good wars btw), while admitting that they mainly just do 1 macro and a few other buttons occasionally. The rogues who used to be good are flat out beating wars, albeit by not a very big margin.

    The difference between a good war and a bad one can easily come up to 300+ DPS or more. The difference now between a good rogue and a bad one is barely 100 DPS. I'm not one to believe the MMO's in general require a lot of skill... but could appreciate how it could count for something previously. We all know rogues will be nerfed soon, but I'm just a bit disappointed that the rogue mechanic was somehow changed to make it such that 'skill' plays such a small difference in the class.
    Welcome to Rift Bro, rofl.

  11. #11
    Ascendant Blays's Avatar
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    Well just to be fair, current best rogue spec is MM and it has no macros. Good rogues put out 2.5k dps when so so ones are sitting at 2k with the same gear. Next comes NB with one macro and if you can keep up with perfect rotation on the move as a NB you are considered to be good and can start farming water resistance for upper level :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Torvax View Post
    Im an R8 Cleric.
    1 Rogue can annihilate 2 healing clerics together-Cross healing doesnt work against a rog. .

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by synrgy View Post
    I dont know why you are suprised, there is no skill involved anymore. Even my 12yo dressed in blue gear is pulling 1400 dps st. I laugh, never played rift? Dont worry, have some crafted gear copy this build, here are the macros, just press this button over and over. Its awesome they have succeeded in making the rogue the biggest noob class to date, which is why 50% of the game is playing it, you can completely suck and do very well as a rogue.
    ha that is funny

  13. #13
    Prophet of Telara Sarablu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by synrgy View Post
    Its awesome they have succeeded in making the rogue the biggest noob class to date, which is why 50% of the game is playing it, you can completely suck and do very well as a rogue.
    What a silly statement. How can you "completely suck" and yet "do very well"? Doesn't doing "very well" by definition exclude "completely suck"?

    Let me guess. You're playing some other class who's gotten addicted to your guildies praising you for your leet dps skills. And now that a few rogues are challenging you in the raid dps summaries, you're missing the ego stroking from your guildies because it was the one thing in life you thought you were good at. AMIRITE?
    Cogito Ergo Femina Sum

  14. #14
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    51MM if being played as a 1 button macro is not good at all, and you will notice a significant dps difference between a scrub who macroing and someone whose not.

    Using SF on cooldown = dps loss, Not letting QS bleeds tick out dps loss, so there are some areas where an "attentive" person will parse better than a 1 button macro spec, figure it out and stop QQ'ing.
    Kublakan - 11/11 - Rogue
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  15. #15
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    I don't keep up with changes other classes get and I don't PvP much. I do a lot of 5-man PUG'n though. One thing I've noticed is that most Rogues are tearing stuff up in a major sort of way. Like I said I don't keep up with changes that aren't Mage related but they certainly got a huge buff of some kind or is was made very simple to pump out max DPS. Even considering the fact that you may occasionally get a Rogue that's in great gear and knows the class well but this is like every group I get in that has Rogues they're literally THE dps and I feel.

    Inb4 Raid parses. I couldn't care less about what class can do what with the support of 19 other people. I just think you can have serious problems if you have that kind of large descripancies with DPS compared to different classes and their DPS builds in pretty much the same kind range of gear.

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