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Thread: 51 Sin, Where to Put the 15 Points?

  1. #1
    Plane Walker
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    Default 51 Sin, Where to Put the 15 Points?

    51 Sin/15 MM - Gives Range Attacks and Finisher, Amply Overall damage
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...0V.GARftsfqddR

    51 Sin/15 Inf - Gives Healing Debuff and Cleanse
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...0c.GARftsfqddR

    51 Sin/15 BD - Gives you Sprint, Charge and Deadly Dance
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...uz.GARftsfqddR



    Which you think is better

  2. #2
    Ascendant sanosuke's Avatar
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    i dont really run 51 sin anymore cause I find better damage in pvp with hybrid sin builds but if i do run 51 I like 51Sin/10MM/5RS love the AP boost from this hits a lot harder than my old 15INF build
    Warfronts need segregation of the Tiers. 1-5 and 6-8 or pre-50 pvp will be the most enjoyable PVP in the game.
    Run and Gun My *Boomstick* MM PVP Guide
    The Night Bomber PVP Spec + Rogue PVP Guide Compilation
    Blood and Fire Sin/NB PVP Guide

  3. #3
    Plane Walker
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    Well I got bored of NB/RS and MM/Sin

    XD

  4. #4
    Shadowlander
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    You go 51 sin/15 inf/ 0 rng

    This gives you Cleanse, healing debuff, ranged attack (quick shot) and ranged finisher (headshot)
    Xypher - Level 50 - P8 - Rogue
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  5. #5
    Plane Touched Lilisette's Avatar
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    Seconding 51SIN/15INF/0RNG. Anti-Kiting is just too useful to pass up.
    Lilisette High Elven Rogue - Argent EU | Laretha: High Elven Cleric - Argent EU
    Rahal: High Elven Warrior - Argent EU | Lilaeath: High Elven Mage - Argent EU
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  6. #6
    Rift Disciple Savage Henry's Avatar
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    Plus your poisons proc on your ranged attacks so you keep draining mana with Debilitating Poison while they bunny hop around and heal themselves,

  7. #7
    Rift Chaser
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    I say 15bd is superior in every way and run it as my solo pvp build and it does wonders.

    I can burst 7k hp healers in a foul play and have a silence interrupt.

    Nothing like that burst with the other classes in the slighest.

    Raitoken Rank 8 Rogue | Octuris Rank 2 Mage
    Member of <The Fallen Sons>, Freeholme Server

  8. #8
    Ascendant sanosuke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raitoken View Post
    I say 15bd is superior in every way and run it as my solo pvp build and it does wonders.

    I can burst 7k hp healers in a foul play and have a silence interrupt.

    Nothing like that burst with the other classes in the slighest.
    this one is probably the best solo spec ive played specifically for open world ganking.. since lot of time when you are doing open world stuff your cooldowns are not on CD and deadly dance buffed serpent followed by an assassinate is good times.. also if you pick up sprint and since you have flash of steel you can still get break free if you want cause you don't really need the ranged stuff.
    Warfronts need segregation of the Tiers. 1-5 and 6-8 or pre-50 pvp will be the most enjoyable PVP in the game.
    Run and Gun My *Boomstick* MM PVP Guide
    The Night Bomber PVP Spec + Rogue PVP Guide Compilation
    Blood and Fire Sin/NB PVP Guide

  9. #9
    Soulwalker
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    Ive been thinking about this also, what about 15 ranger? for 5% crit, 4%dmg, a ranged snare, a ranged attack with a bleed, and a ranged armor debuff? (also with another ap buff or out of combat runspeed buff)

    or what about some mix like 6rng/9mm for 5% crit, ranged snare, 5% dmg, ranged attack that makes you run faster, and some +ap on crit


    As you can tell i HATE being kiting or ran away from, i like to have something to help me catch up, or slow them down, or both so i can stay on em and wack em to death

  10. #10
    Plane Touched
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    Glad y'all posted this. For PvE, the 51sin/5RS/10NB seems to hit the hardest and being bursty and love it for grinding mobs/dailies. For WFs though, the downfall is that we have no healing debuff or much in the area of anti-kiting.

    Def getting tired of nb/rs and went back to sin. Does it hit hard enough at r4 to be worth the 15 in infiltrator?

  11. #11
    Plane Touched
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    Losing:
    10% AP
    Shift
    15% damage from abilities and finishers

    Gaining:
    10% ArP
    10% crit damage
    Healing debuff
    Ranged abilities (won't hit near as hard, but I can't count how many times they were JUST out of range)
    Stacking damage buff up to 20% (unless the target is getting heals or staying up forever, this might have little benefit)
    6% damage against players

    Looking at the fact that 6% damage to players effects ALL damage, it's probably pretty damn close to the 15% damage from abilities and finishers, add in 10% ArP, it would def match it. On leather and chain, how much does ArP really effect us in this game? It was huge in Wrath on WoW once your reach a certain gear level and specced in to a physical talent tree like Rift's sin.

  12. #12
    Rift Chaser
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troponin View Post
    Losing:
    10% AP
    Shift
    15% damage from abilities and finishers

    Gaining:
    10% ArP
    10% crit damage
    Healing debuff
    Ranged abilities (won't hit near as hard, but I can't count how many times they were JUST out of range)
    Stacking damage buff up to 20% (unless the target is getting heals or staying up forever, this might have little benefit)
    6% damage against players

    Looking at the fact that 6% damage to players effects ALL damage, it's probably pretty damn close to the 15% damage from abilities and finishers, add in 10% ArP, it would def match it. On leather and chain, how much does ArP really effect us in this game? It was huge in Wrath on WoW once your reach a certain gear level and specced in to a physical talent tree like Rift's sin.
    The thing is everyone defending inf has either never tried BD or can't learn how to play without cleanse soul.

    The healing debuff sucks. It does. You put it on a mage or cleric who doesn't dispel it and you're fighting a bad player. It honestly isn't worth the global cooldown.

    Try blade dancer and check the burst. That combined with the utility and I haven't looked back. Sin is about burst and ramp up time of the inf talent doesn't help you do that until you've been in combat for a bit which is alright but I rather have higher burst to kill people.

    Try it before you knock it. I don't know anyone that played both specs that actually still plays with 15inf.

    Raitoken Rank 8 Rogue | Octuris Rank 2 Mage
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  13. #13
    Champion
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    I tried 15 BD with 51 'sin after the introduction of Deadly Dance and again after 1.5 with the addition of FoS to the spec. Both times I came to the same conclusion that it was a waste of points. I found using impale with final blow and being able to get my second serpent strike off quicker provided much better and more consistent burst than anything 15 BD could do without burning Slip Away (especially now with the shorter duration impale). Add in cleanse soul and anathema and they just don't compare for me. Oh and saying anathema is useless because it'll "just get cleansed" is like saying neddra's essence is useless because it'll "just get purged". Even when it's not going it's full duration, both abilities are overpowering when timely applied.

  14. #14
    Rift Disciple
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    I've been running 51sin/10MM/5RS recently and enjoying it. This is after playing 51sin/15Inf/0Rng to rank 6 in 1.2+. I also stayed with 15Inf for first weekend of 1.5.

    I dropped Inf because 1.5 has substanitally bufffed every other Soul whilst Info got nothing. In terms of Anatehema, as noted above a good healer is going to cleanse himself, they have no cooldown for a self cleanse so all that's happening is that they pop a HoT and then cleanse and pop a big heal. The good clerics will self heal as soon as a Sin pops on them, they won't wait to half health as they are assuming burst and Anathema is following. Short version is that Anathema won't help you against good players, and with a 30s cooldown you can't maintain it on them.

    The only useful thing that Inf currently has is Cleanse Soul, but with the nerf to Slip Away, you are going to have to hold Cleanse for that or use it when fighting casters. With a 2min cool down it's just not that great.

    To get both of the above you are investing points in underwhelming abilities - 10% ArP and 10%crit damage bonus, 6% damage against players and a building damage against players. The problem with Focused intent is that it will take you over 30 hits on the target to get the full benefit applied - Sin is just too squishy to survive that long.

    I'm not a fan of BD with 51 sin because there is a huge inefficiency in points, 51Sin has a number of abilities which really increase Final Blow, yet you're going to spend 8 points in BD buffing Deadly Strike. Further to that, when Jagged Strike, Impale, Savage Strike and Puncture are combined with the MM talents they are truly excellent as well. PArticularly when they ignore 25% of your oppentns armour.

    The 51Sin/15MM/0xx is phenonmenal damage because Sin abilities scale so well with AP and the Armour Pen is of massive benefit for most of the Sin Abilities - 51Sin/10MM/5RS is less damage but gives you a nice survivability boost to deal with AOE etc.


    In summary from my experience, I believe 51Sin/15Inf/0Rng is superior against mages. Against the other 3 classes 51sin/15MM is better.

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