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Thread: This is bugging me, help plz

  1. #1
    Rift Master turbododge's Avatar
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    Default This is bugging me, help plz

    Ive been testing all the 51 marksman builds i been seeing on dunsparrow / here / everywhere, and they ALL do significantly less damage then my setup and i cant figure out why. Ive done hours and hours of testing and cant seem to get the others to work right, or in a rare case, mine might actually be better.

    I don't know for sure if its better or not so im asking other people to test my build.

    ive been out dpsing other 51 mm people in my raids that have substantially higher gear then i do, and it dont seem right.

    Gear: epic sigil with predatory greater (100ap on shadowfire), full rogue crafted set, one t3 set piece (durnes boots), geldo bow, DH helm, 2 marauders t2 pieces and synergy crystal for them. 2 raid rift pieces, and random t2 junk fills in the rest.

    i use 3 macros, all will be listed. this is a 3 button only build. (point generator / finisher / aoe)

    Buffs: - predatory instincts, electrified ammunitions and silver tip ammunitions



    link to build
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...tRqdAudR.VMc0u


    macros,

    Combo point builder:

    cast Shadow Fire
    cast Piercing Shot
    cast Empowered Shot
    use Fire Demon's Soul
    cast Quick Shot

    (fire demons souls my trinket, i also macro'd it in to the other builds ive tried for a fair comparison)


    Finisher macro:

    cast Rapid Fire Shot
    cast Bull's Eye
    cast Quick Reload
    cast Deadeye Shot

    Aoe macro:
    cast Lighting Fury
    cast Fan Out

    thanks for input
    Last edited by turbododge; 10-14-2011 at 09:30 PM.

  2. #2
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    First go to http://riftupgrades.com/roguedps/ and put in your gear. It's easier then an itemized list and then just link it here.

    Second link your stats. Dex/str/crit/ap/hit and your parse on a 5 minute dummy test and at least 4 different tests.

    There could be 50 different reasons why you are parsing so well vs others and it may have nothing to do with how good the spec is but how well you play and how much the others need to improve. Doing this will give us a baseline if anything.

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  3. #3
    Rift Master turbododge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raitoken View Post
    First go to http://riftupgrades.com/roguedps/ and put in your gear. It's easier then an itemized list and then just link it here.

    Second link your stats. Dex/str/crit/ap/hit and your parse on a 5 minute dummy test and at least 4 different tests.

    There could be 50 different reasons why you are parsing so well vs others and it may have nothing to do with how good the spec is but how well you play and how much the others need to improve. Doing this will give us a baseline if anything.
    My gear is regardless of the fact considering im using the the same gear for all the builds im testing. my gear, buffs, and raid potion is the control (is the same/never changes) --- build /macros are the variable. Only the variable will make a difference in my dps.

    as for stats,
    Str- 346
    Dex -665
    AP -703
    Crit- 960
    Hit- 279

    as for dps parses, i can open and sustain around 2k-2600 single target dps for the first 8-10 seconds, then is ever so slowly drops down and holds at about 1450.

    it depends alot on what crits, ljust like every other build. IF deadeye crits for 4300 or not crit for 2800 then its a big difference, if rapid fire crits all shots for 1250 or not is also a bigg difference.

    ive done 5-10 and 20 minute parses on my build and all of them ended around 1450 vs the others were around 1200-1300, at most. some dipping down into the mid 1100's at times

    edit, ive done literally, about 20-30 different parse sessions on each build since 1.5 came out, and everything ends in the same result, mine being way over the others....
    Last edited by turbododge; 10-14-2011 at 09:50 PM.

  4. #4
    RIFT Guide Writer Gyle's Avatar
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    Take 1 point out of Improved Quick Shot and put it in Crippling shot IMO, but i may test this out with that change. Since my MM is not crit capped, the 3% dex may just be better than the +1% damage from Shadowfire, and never using a non MM finisher to keep the HS buff up, so you always get a free Emp shot. Tough to give up a zero point tho, i like being able to have break free or shadow shift.
    Hastati (50 warrior), Tsar (50 cleric), Tsaritsa (50 Mage)
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  5. #5
    Rift Master turbododge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gyle View Post
    Take 1 point out of Improved Quick Shot and put it in Crippling shot IMO, but i may test this out with that change. Since my MM is not crit capped, the 3% dex may just be better than the +1% damage from Shadowfire, and never using a non MM finisher to keep the HS buff up, so you always get a free Emp shot. Tough to give up a zero point tho, i like being able to have break free or shadow shift.
    using crippling shot drops my dps by over 100.

    like ive said, ive tested every "top 51mm dps build" since 1.5 came out. and one or more of them used crippling shot.. total failure and dps loss...

    edit: ive tested probably over 15 different build total. from mainstream to obscure **** i find.. all were less dps
    Last edited by turbododge; 10-14-2011 at 09:56 PM.

  6. #6
    RIFT Guide Writer Gyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbododge View Post
    using crippling shot drops my dps by over 100.

    like ive said, ive tested every "top 51mm dps build" since 1.5 came out. and one or more of them used crippling shot.. total failure and dps loss...

    edit: ive tested probably over 15 different build total. from mainstream to obscure **** i find.. all were less dps
    That makes no sense at all. Crippling shot is the hardest hitting CP builder in the ranger tree, hits for like 50 damage more than quick shot on the tool tip i think... Have you checked to make sure you are fully trained up? Crippling shot should never be a DPS loss, it hits harder than anything else, and with 2/3 in IQS your dot should never drop anyway.
    Hastati (50 warrior), Tsar (50 cleric), Tsaritsa (50 Mage)
    Guides: 51 Bladedancer, Bloodstalker, Nightblade
    DPS Rogue <Trinity>
    5/8 ID; HK Conqueror

  7. #7
    Rift Master turbododge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gyle View Post
    That makes no sense at all. Crippling shot is the hardest hitting CP builder in the ranger tree, hits for like 50 damage more than quick shot on the tool tip i think... Have you checked to make sure you are fully trained up? Crippling shot should never be a DPS loss, it hits harder than anything else, and with 2/3 in IQS your dot should never drop anyway.
    thats what i said, it didnt make sense, but its a dps loss, and noticeable almost instantly as i start parsing.

    and yes ive done the 2/3 improved quick shot / crippling shot stuff.. ive tested everything, and i stress the everything part of that sentence lol ><

    i just need people to test their builds, then my exact build and lmk what they get. cuz the crippling Shot builds i can litterally tell puts less damage on the target. my build, theres jsut piles of damage on the target constantly, the crippling shot builds is spaced out alot more and u see less numbers.

    how i play my build:

    spam the combo point builder, and when empowering shot -shadowfire is going off / casting (and u know it will put 5+ combo points on the target) start spamming the finisher macro as empowering or shadowfire is casting so the finisher goes off right away then back to the point generator.

    edit: and yes, fully trained. i wouldnt make a post like this making a rookie mistake that that lol
    Last edited by turbododge; 10-14-2011 at 10:09 PM.

  8. #8
    Rift Master turbododge's Avatar
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    i think the crippling shot is a dps loss cuz of the global cooldown yur burning vs putting a finisher on the target. My build stacks the combo points on super fast, and that extra time throwing finishers out vs crippling shot may be leading to more dps regardless of how much damage CS does over QS

    and the fact the CS is on a 10 sec cd vs QS is on none, so its more consistent on how it builds combo points.

    even when yur at 4 points and empowering shot goes off, a quick shot or other isntant cast goes of instantly with it then instantly followed by another finisher. it just blast damage constantly cuz of the speed of the rotation.

    thats the only explanation i can come up with as to why mine is dps'ing higher vs other builds
    Last edited by turbododge; 10-14-2011 at 10:30 PM.

  9. #9
    Champion Cinerus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbododge View Post
    i think the crippling shot is a dps loss cuz of the global cooldown yur burning vs putting a finisher on the target. My build stacks the combo points on super fast, and that extra time throwing finishers out vs crippling shot may be leading to more dps regardless of how much damage CS does over QS

    and the fact the CS is on a 10 sec cd vs QS is on none, so its more consistent on how it builds combo points.

    even when yur at 4 points and empowering shot goes off, a quick shot or other isntant cast goes of instantly with it then instantly followed by another finisher. it just blast damage constantly cuz of the speed of the rotation.

    thats the only explanation i can come up with as to why mine is dps'ing higher vs other builds
    That doesn't even make sense. How would CS slow down your rotation? Both CS and QS are instant cast, have the same energy cost and give the same amount of combopoints.
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  10. #10
    Rift Master turbododge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinerus View Post
    That doesn't even make sense. How would CS slow down your rotation? Both CS and QS are instant cast, have the same energy cost and give the same amount of combopoints.
    like i said, maybe its cuz mine is faster / more consistent with combo point building AND, NOT using CS frees up a global cooldown which allows that much more time for finishers. The extra 6 seconds per minute you are wasting using CS is time for a whole full rotation+finisher. just the finisher in that rotation will out do the damage all 6 of those CS's did. now add in the other abilities damage to get points for that finisher.

    i dont want to debate this and that, cuz ive already personally tested / questioned / built / parsed everything.

    i just want people to test this build and see what it does for them. as ive posted in early in the thread, using the crippling shot in rotation, i can physically notice the numbers coming on the screen slower and watch my parser trickle damage in, in comparison to my build.

    only way to find out is if people test my build, maybe ive found the new best dps 51mm build, maybe not. anyone interested in doing more dps would do well to test it and find out. you are not gonna lose anything but a few minutes of building / parsing. more then just my findings will be needed to verify this build.
    Last edited by turbododge; 10-14-2011 at 11:02 PM.

  11. #11
    Champion Cinerus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbododge View Post
    like i said, maybe its cuz mine is faster / more consistent with combo point building AND, NOT using CS frees up a global cooldown which allows that much more time for finishers. The extra 6 seconds per minute you are wasting using CS is time for a whole full rotation+finisher. just the finisher in that rotation will out do the damage all 6 of those CS's did. now add in the other abilities damage to get points for that finisher.

    i dont want to debate this and that, cuz ive already personally tested / questioned / built / parsed everything.

    i just want people to test this build and see what it does for them. as ive posted in early in the thread, using the crippling shot in rotation, i can physically notice the numbers coming on the screen slower and watch my parser trickle damage in, in comparison to my build.

    only way to find out is if people test my build, maybe ive found the new best dps 51mm build, maybe not. anyone interested in doing more dps would do well to test it and find out. you are not gonna lose anything but a few minutes of building / parsing. more then just my findings will be needed to verify this build.
    You don't get it, do you? You are not wasting 6 GDCs on CS, you replace a QS with a CS. There is no possible way that you can get more finishers off without using CS than you can with using CS, assuming you're doing everything right with your rotation. Not only does CS do more damage, it even allows your QS to bleed for more ticks.
    Last edited by Cinerus; 10-14-2011 at 11:07 PM.
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  12. #12
    Rift Master turbododge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinerus View Post
    You don't get it, do you? You are not wasting 6 GDCs on CS, you replace a QS with a CS. There is no possible way that you can get more finishers off without using CS than you can with using CS, assuming you're doing everything right with your rotation. Not only does CS do more damage, it even allows your QS to bleed for more ticks.
    i do get it

    what you dont get is that fact that sometimes things arnt what they seem on paper vs what they actually turn out to be.

    i used my build till i seen the new one for crippling shot and 2/3 improved quick shot / etc. i tested it litteraly said out loud while parsing " omg this is garbage" . i went back and forth to the build details / etc, and back into the game and made sure things were right and re parsed over and over, and to the same result, less dps.
    Last edited by turbododge; 10-14-2011 at 11:11 PM.

  13. #13
    Champion Cinerus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbododge View Post
    i do get it

    what you dont get is that fact that sometimes things arnt what they seem on paper vs what they actually turn out to be.

    i used my build till i seen the new one for crippling shot and 2/3 improved quick shot. i tested it litteraly said out loud while parsing " omg this is garbage" . i went back and forth to the build details / etc, and back into the game and made sure things were right and re parsed over and over, and to the same result, less dps.
    So explain to me then, how do you get an extra finisher off when not using CS?
    Last edited by Cinerus; 10-14-2011 at 11:11 PM.
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    Rift Master turbododge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinerus View Post
    So explain to me then, how do you get an extra finisher off if you don't use CS?
    rapid fire is instant cast, so that potentially 6k+ damage vs crippling shots what? couple hundred?

    even if deadeye goes off, yur still halfway through the cast on it b4 Cs would get off its global cooldown. So again, thats (cutting damage in half cuz of the cast time is 2x the gcd of CS) 2k+ damage on deadeye vs the what? couple hundred on CS.

    it adds up over time, a few thousand damage extra in the rotation vs a few hundred

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    Quote Originally Posted by turbododge View Post
    rapid fire is instant cast, so that potentially 6k+ damage vs crippling shots what? couple hundred?

    even if deadeye goes off, yur still halfway through the cast on it b4 Cs would get off its global cooldown. So again, thats (cutting damage in half cuz of the cast time is 2x the gcd of CS) 2k+ damage on deadeye vs the what? couple hundred on CS.

    it adds up over time, a few thousand damage extra in the rotation vs a few hundred
    Are we talking about the same CS (Crippling Shot)? It is a combopoint builder, not a finisher.
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