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Thread: Bestial fury VS Improved Quick shot

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default Bestial fury VS Improved Quick shot

    Which would make you have more damage overall in a raid boss fight should it be having points in bestial fury or Improved quick shot ? I mean is it better to have 3/3 in IQS and skip BF or have 1/3 in IQS and 2/2 in BF ?
    I did some test and got the best resaults with having 2/3 in IQS and 1/2 in Bf am talking about the 51 mm 15 rng build.
    So i thought to discuse this topic and see if other rogues tried this or somebody had diffrent resaults than me and thanks .

  2. #2
    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
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    ur spec is wrong, ur not even asking the right question. piercing shot is bad, 2/2 bestial fury, 2/3 IQS 1/1 cripling shot, they aren't even on the same tier so ur question doubly doesn't make sense.

    ur 15 in ranger should look like this with 3 points to put imo in bolster since 6% DR is huge in a raid.
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  3. #3
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    In my opinion the only reason to take 1/2 beastial fury is to max out piercing shot. Otherwise I don't see why you would.

    The only time you should use headshot is for the buff, and the less times you use it the better. Why go 1/2 so you might have to use headshot twice instead of once every minute?

    Piercing shot is definitely not 'bad', it's the best armor debuff in game. The issue is you need 16 points in ranger so maxing it is not accessible unless you 1/2 beastial fury.

    What I do is time the headshot buff with strafe - so once strafe comes off cooldown you know it's time to use headshot again. So - cb to 5 - headshot - strafe - back to normal and try and use it as little as possible. Strafe refreshes every 50 seconds or so, so you'll be applying headshot more then you should be but... better that then having to look at your buff bars in a raid.

    An optimal raid will have one person using piercing shot for the debuff (maxed) and no other rogues using piercing shot as MM.
    Last edited by Mayi; 10-14-2011 at 06:42 AM.

  4. #4
    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayi View Post
    In my opinion the only reason to take 1/2 beastial fury is to max out piercing shot. Otherwise I don't see why you would.

    The only time you should use headshot is for the buff, and the less times you use it the better. Why go 1/2 so you might have to use headshot twice instead of once every minute?

    Piercing shot is definitely not 'bad', it's the best armor debuff in game. The issue is you need 16 points in ranger so maxing it is not accessible unless you 1/2 beastial fury.

    What I do is time the headshot buff with strafe - so once strafe comes off cooldown you know it's time to use headshot again. So - cb to 5 - headshot - strafe - back to normal and try and use it as little as possible. Strafe refreshes every 50 seconds or so, so you'll be applying headshot more then you should be but... better that then having to look at your buff bars in a raid.

    An optimal raid will have one person using piercing shot for the debuff (maxed) and no other rogues using piercing shot as MM.
    i just make 1 of the rogues max piercing shot, just make sure it's not you so your personal dps is best
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    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hokonoso View Post
    i just make 1 of the rogues max piercing shot, just make sure it's not you so your personal dps is best
    I'd take the hit to not use headshot - I find tracking headshot annoying.

    Plus, there are other competitive builds that incorporate 3/3 piercing.

  6. #6
    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayi View Post
    I'd take the hit to not use headshot - I find tracking headshot annoying.

    Plus, there are other competitive builds that incorporate 3/3 piercing.
    yup, can def pick it up in other builds, it's just a dps loss tho as it takes 4 points and unless you take 40+ ranger you dont have 4 points that wont be a bigger dps upgrade elsewhere in the tree. take my ranger build for example, it has 34points spent and takes every last dps talent possible and doesnt have piercing shot, doesnt even have trick shot since fan out hits just fine and aoe doesnt matter, only reason to use build tho is for rain of arrows since mm is so much better, but it's only 200dps behind mm for me so it's still useful.
    Useful Rogue guides since I don't want to answer 50 billion questions anymore:
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  7. #7
    Soulwalker
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    Thanks for reply

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    RIFT Guide Writer Gyle's Avatar
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    I use this build http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...tRqdAudR.VMRbd

    It is absolutely the top DPS build you can make out of 51 MM. The issue is it uses only 2/3 in exposure. This overwrites the warrior armor debuff with an inferior armor debuff. Inferior by a MASSIVE CRAZY... 30 armor. In a raid setting IMO 30 armor makes absolutely no significant difference in raid wide dps. I think the dps increase of having all of our MM's running this build is greater than the DPS loss of having a slightly inferior armor debuff on the target.
    Hastati (50 warrior), Tsar (50 cleric), Tsaritsa (50 Mage)
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  9. #9
    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gyle View Post
    I use this build http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...tRqdAudR.VMRbd

    It is absolutely the top DPS build you can make out of 51 MM. The issue is it uses only 2/3 in exposure. This overwrites the warrior armor debuff with an inferior armor debuff. Inferior by a MASSIVE CRAZY... 30 armor. In a raid setting IMO 30 armor makes absolutely no significant difference in raid wide dps. I think the dps increase of having all of our MM's running this build is greater than the DPS loss of having a slightly inferior armor debuff on the target.
    but that dps can be offset by just having 1 rogue run 3/3 and the rest run without it, piercing shot barely hits harder than the initial quick shot, having the atk itself is not worth gimping warrior dps imo.
    Useful Rogue guides since I don't want to answer 50 billion questions anymore:
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  10. #10
    Shadowlander
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    BF is bad and is a DPS loss, it does not take HK gear to figure that out.. 5% dmg is nice but not compared to the 5500 + crits i have done w/o it useing deadeye shot and not waisting 5 CPs for some crappy dmg and a very minor dmg upgrade. BTW emp shot in your rotation is not a DPS loss w/o the synergy crystal, Stop reading everyones input and try it out and you will see. 3/3 AP is the best bang for your buck since those are just basicaly fill points to get shadowfire. Crippling shot may or may not be a DPS loss based on if you use EMP shot in your rotation, which you should be so you can ignore CS to be honest.

  11. #11
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karnivore View Post
    BF is bad and is a DPS loss, it does not take HK gear to figure that out.. 5% dmg is nice but not compared to the 5500 + crits i have done w/o it useing deadeye shot and not waisting 5 CPs for some crappy dmg and a very minor dmg upgrade. BTW emp shot in your rotation is not a DPS loss w/o the synergy crystal, Stop reading everyones input and try it out and you will see. 3/3 AP is the best bang for your buck since those are just basicaly fill points to get shadowfire. Crippling shot may or may not be a DPS loss based on if you use EMP shot in your rotation, which you should be so you can ignore CS to be honest.
    I can agree with this - test things out yourself. There isn't a build on the forum that can't be optimized after a little work. The main reason is everyone gravitates towards Hoko's builds, which while are good it takes time to tweak a build. You can't master 5+ builds, if you play one and tweak you'll get more milage.

    After reading this thread I also decided to drop beastial fury... reason being I don't like having to track headshot. Will it be a dps loss? Maybe, but not by a lot I bet. I'm already pulling 1900 self buffed on the dummy, I think I can live with 1880 (number made up) if it means not having to track a 1 minute buff. MM also has a ton of abilities which makes binds problematic... dropping one ability will help.

    Trion did a good job balancing rogues. I think at this point what everyone should be asking themselves is 'what do I like playing' instead of 'what's the most dps', and just go with that. Then optimize based on your playstyle. I'm not saying random points in the tree you like, but you can choose any soul but Sab, BD and Bard and be within 50 dps of the top build. 50 dps is not enough for me to feel forced to play a certain build.

    There's also a lot of cookie cutter paths in trees for best dps that are no longer true... like 2/3 quick. I find the dot is frequently not up when you add empowered and deadeye vs before 1.5 with Sozu's builds.
    Last edited by Mayi; 10-15-2011 at 04:36 AM.

  12. #12
    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karnivore View Post
    BF is bad and is a DPS loss, it does not take HK gear to figure that out.. 5% dmg is nice but not compared to the 5500 + crits i have done w/o it useing deadeye shot and not waisting 5 CPs for some crappy dmg and a very minor dmg upgrade. BTW emp shot in your rotation is not a DPS loss w/o the synergy crystal, Stop reading everyones input and try it out and you will see. 3/3 AP is the best bang for your buck since those are just basicaly fill points to get shadowfire. Crippling shot may or may not be a DPS loss based on if you use EMP shot in your rotation, which you should be so you can ignore CS to be honest.
    under no way is using headshot a dps loss, it hits as hard as hasted shot and using it before strafe does not screw up any EM procs.

    posts like these make me wanna get serious and gear up so i can post numbers that blow ppls minds away. dunno why ppl think spending hours testing builds doesnt mean i dont know the best rotations for said builds... the problem with making guides is, the best rotations are not the easiest ones so i tend to post what is easiest to do so others can reproduce it in a live situation, i oftentimes say in my guides whether or not they are optimized, but that doesn't mean i don't know what is or what the best rotation is.

    also you must look at your gear and raid comp, if everyone is running mm, it is in your best interest to run a melee spec and keep up lethal poison as that will increase the raids dps.
    Useful Rogue guides since I don't want to answer 50 billion questions anymore:
    Marksman, Ranger, Nightblade, Blink'Blade, Asstalker, Assdancer, and finally The Hoko Spec™
    Hoko, teaching noobs the way of rogue pve until 12/20/11.

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