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Thread: 1.5 Sin PVP Discussion

  1. #16
    Rift Disciple
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    I have the opposite experience, I tend to find that MM can easily range down a NB if there's a group strummash going on. Good MM will be >20m away if they can and retreat early, plsu they're hitting you with VM while you're hitting the melee bundle with FB. Sin can stealth attack and can stunlock down any MM or equal rank or less, 6k HP is nothing for a rank 8 Sin. The Slip Away bug is very frustrating though!

    Pre 1.5, NB was my second spec and I have done maybe 10 warfronts or so this patch with it - it certainly hits harder and obviously is more durable, but if you're running with less than 51 points you're obviously missing Living Flame which is the main source of AOE damage. If you've less than 16 points in RS then you miss Stalker Phase, so you can't have both.

    I tend to think that NB is a less effective team contribution in anything outside Black Garden. You still need a pocket healer with NB and I think a good MM will pick you off with VM, but everyone has different experiences and if you enjoy NB more power to you - it's my second favourite Rogue soul!

  2. #17
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    Ive been using the 51 sin/15bd spec for awhile now and I wanna test something different. That being said, i think 51sin/ 15 MM looks promising. My question is what do you need to keep up to make final blow hit like a truck? is it puncture? if so, why don't you have it in your macro?

    Also, do you open with stun or assassinate on non-s/b warrior targets?

    Thanks

  3. #18
    Ascendant sanosuke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anselan View Post
    I have the opposite experience, I tend to find that MM can easily range down a NB if there's a group strummash going on. Good MM will be >20m away if they can and retreat early, plsu they're hitting you with VM while you're hitting the melee bundle with FB. Sin can stealth attack and can stunlock down any MM or equal rank or less, 6k HP is nothing for a rank 8 Sin. The Slip Away bug is very frustrating though!

    Pre 1.5, NB was my second spec and I have done maybe 10 warfronts or so this patch with it - it certainly hits harder and obviously is more durable, but if you're running with less than 51 points you're obviously missing Living Flame which is the main source of AOE damage. If you've less than 16 points in RS then you miss Stalker Phase, so you can't have both.

    I tend to think that NB is a less effective team contribution in anything outside Black Garden. You still need a pocket healer with NB and I think a good MM will pick you off with VM, but everyone has different experiences and if you enjoy NB more power to you - it's my second favourite Rogue soul!
    You cannot get kited with a 44NB / 22RS if you do you are just plain playing the soul combo wrong.... also NB currently is the least reliant on having outside heals I honestly was a huge sin advocate but after last patch NB / Rift is just too good
    Warfronts need segregation of the Tiers. 1-5 and 6-8 or pre-50 pvp will be the most enjoyable PVP in the game.
    Run and Gun My *Boomstick* MM PVP Guide
    The Night Bomber PVP Spec + Rogue PVP Guide Compilation
    Blood and Fire Sin/NB PVP Guide

  4. #19
    Telaran
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    I have been playing the 51sin/15MM/0 inf and I do like it for the most parts. I am not a big fan of the MM finishers, I think the CDs are too long and I find little use I hasted shot in most of my encounters. I have attempted to use the 15 bd but have trouble seeing a damage increase with using Deadly Strike over Impale > Final Blow. Are yall BD lovers seeing a damage increase from Deadly Dance overcome the 2k+ crits ( in R5 gear) from Final Blow? I usually get numbers around 800ish for Deadly Strike then 600-800ish form my next 3 attacks. I am sure I do not have the best rotation for DB and this could be my issue. What numbers are yall seeing for Deadly Strike and the next 3 attacks?

    Before 1.5 I really loved playing NB but after I am just not doing well with it. I love how Primal crits for 500+ and the ranged damage. I have a hard time taking down healing mages and mages with a buff remover more than I did before 1.5 oddly. I have tossed my 44NB/22Sin and have been playing with different NB combos attempting to find one I like. Have to try the 22 RS but living without inv is hard.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanosuke View Post
    You cannot get kited with a 44NB / 22RS if you do you are just plain playing the soul combo wrong.... also NB currently is the least reliant on having outside heals I honestly was a huge sin advocate but after last patch NB / Rift is just too good
    I think you misunderstand. If you're at the back hunting MM with your NB/RS fair enough - if however youre' in the melee ball in PS or something then any MM targetting you will take you down fast.

    Given you don't have perma stealth on the NB/RS build, the chances are you're probably shifting around in the main fight.
    Last edited by Anselan; 10-06-2011 at 06:54 AM.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarlosSpicyWiener View Post
    Ive been using the 51 sin/15bd spec for awhile now and I wanna test something different. That being said, i think 51sin/ 15 MM looks promising. My question is what do you need to keep up to make final blow hit like a truck? is it puncture? if so, why don't you have it in your macro?

    Also, do you open with stun or assassinate on non-s/b warrior targets?

    Thanks
    You need to keep Impale up on the target for Final Blow to hit like a truck.

    Puncture in the macro is personal - I've actually got it in mine but some guys didn't like to have it in the spam macro because of the different energy cost - I suspect with the new energy regen rate that this might be less of an issue now. Good spot.

    I actually almost always open with Jagged Strike on a warrior unless he has low hitpoints (glass cannon build) or he his using a shield. The mechanics in the game mean shields can actually block DOT ticks, so if he is Paladin spec'd there is a chance that every DOT tick is healing him and feeding him a reactive.

  7. #22
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    What do you open up with on non-warriors?

  8. #23
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    Full p8 and I run Sin with 15 BD, I have zero problems with killing anything i go for. I thought I would miss INF but nope!

    I also use the Vampire MM posted on this forum and adapted it to suit PVE farming. Tried the other night and It is SIMPLY insane! Hell the dps is sooooooooo good i dont use the blinks and play in defence mode. 8.5k in p8 gear and around 180 hit with various gear swaps = very very dead people and self healing.

    I may drop my first love Sin, waiting for Cd's is simply so last year, why stealth when you can face roll with MM spec.

  9. #24
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    If it's a MM or another DPs rogue then Paralysing strike as if they ahve no Break Free you can stunlock them. Same with DPS mages and clerics on 5k-6k HP.

    On a tank style cleric, assasinate - they don't have the healing to recover.

    Healing Clerics and Chlorolocks, normally paralysing strike but more to disrupt their healing and kill their healing target. Also, I tend to use Leeching Poison and Debilitating Poison on these guys. It's also worth using Poison Malice on them because it really does add a kick with the new Poison DPS.

    I will always apply Impale as my first finisher whoever I am fighting.

  10. #25
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    Thanks for the help

  11. #26
    Plane Walker
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    As a R8 rogue with maxed gear, this is my experience between 51 assassin/15 infilt/ 0 rang and 51 assassin/ 15 mm/ 0 whatever. I have not tried the BD one yet, but I will.

    The MM version hits like an effing truck, it really does. You get some improved ranged damage. It excels at killing warriors and other rogues, it really does. It's not that great vs. mages and clerics imo. No heal debuff is just fail against clerics and mages, cleansable or not. If I wanted to rofl stomp noobs, this is my spec. I still have this spec for situations, but I honestly don't like it as much as Infilt.

    A lot of my time as an assassin my focus is to annoy or hurt the back line of the enemies, which is going to be mainly compiled of mages, clerics, and MM.

    With the Infilt version, I find I'm much more capable of taking out a mage or cleric. It is also plenty of fire power to take out a deep MM. Can anathema be cleansed? Yes it can. What I will say is if you time anathema just right, it is plenty effective. When you have a mage or cleric on the ropes is when you hit anathema and your cleanse soul to finish them off. If the mage or cleric knows they are going do die if they don't heal quick, they aren't going to have time to cleanse with you beating on them.

    Where the infilt line is weak, is with sword and board tanks, deep NB, and deep BD (even med point BD). Honestly, those are rarely my primary targets as an assassin. My goal is to annoy the piss out of the back line.

    It's really a toss up in open world, I would say base your spec on whatever is running around. If there are more enemy mages and clerics, go infilt, if warrior rogue go with the MM.

    I have yet to try the BD, but I'm definitely going to. It looks pretty win, I'm not sure about the lack of ranged attacks, but I'll have to check it out.

  12. #27
    Champion ShazzamCrucia's Avatar
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    I'm a scrub, I run 51sin/10inf/5mm

    I like to skeetskeet with hasted shot

    let the marksman spammers apply my heal debuffs for me =P

    cleanse soul is amazing, i gladly sacrifice damage for it. use it when the enemy caster pops cooldowns = his epeen just got limp

    my goal in wf is either healer harassment or lately roflshotting marksman which is very easy with 51sin/anything

    even if a healer won't drop if i can get him to change targets from his healtarget to himself i feel i've created the advantage for my team
    <Bastion>
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  13. #28
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    I'm getting similar results as well.

    I'm rank 8 and have been 51 sin 15 inf since the day i hit rank 5.

    After useing 51 sin 15 MM for a few days i can say that altho the ranged finishers are nice, it still doesnt let me perform on the level i need to in premade vs premade PVP. I'm in a pvp guild so this is the type of pvp i run into often.

    as far as dmg output goes i still feel more lethal as 15 inf too. the MM spec gave me a higher boost to attack but it doesnt seem to trump the +crit dmg and +dmg modifiers in inf.

    51 sin 15mm is my new melee duel spec though...it's op for that.

  14. #29
    Telaran Aquafria's Avatar
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    0 Ranger 51 assassin 15 Infiltrator is the build I have used since March. There is no need to change, it works against anything.

    I was the first Rank6,7,8 ect ect and all the pvp achievements using this build on my shard. over 255,000+ kills so far with this very build. I have tried other combinations but simply not having the pvp soul and Serpent Strike is a HUGE loss.

    When you break it down, Cleanse Soul ( So OP it's ridiculous if used properly ), Anathema ( Heal Debuff ), 2 break free's, 1 single target blind ( also an interrupt ), 1 AoE Blind ( also an interrupt ) Kick stun ( Interrupt as well ), Slip away, Snare, Ranged, Ranged finisher, Self healing, Mana/Power Drain....yes you get it all.

    You have a ton of utility and you can SHUT DOWN any caster or healer and stay competitive against ANY melee build out there. You will be surprise how powerful the 1 ranged and 1 ranged finisher is against an all Melee opponent. I can't tell how many times after I came out of stealth loaded someone up with dots and they blink or knock me back and I kill them with a range finisher. The player who get's out of your melee range, your still hitting
    him with range. A Range player is hitting you and your closing the gap...guess what you got range too.

    I'm not going to say there is no other viable builds, but I honestly feel you would be hard pressed to find this much USEFUL utility for being a melee rogue.

  15. #30
    Rift Disciple
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    For those using impale-final blow...do you use the full combo impale or just get it on at 1 skull and then build towards final blow. And does final blow hit harder with the higher point impale on or is it just impale in general?

    Thanks

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