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Thread: Fan Out is causing me to nerdrage!!!

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoss616 View Post
    I miss ... I miss when rogues were cannon fodder... *wipes a tear from his eye*

    EDIT: lol...Fan out annoys just due to the fact that all I see is a bunch if ranged (on both sides) just stand there and spam it so they can get highest damage due to AOE...

    Like really...all you do is just stand their spamming one button O_o
    I still enjoy killing limpbiscuit mages. lol

    Mages... the new cannon fodder
    Sinjyn - 50 Rogue

  2. #32
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    Disclaimer: My rogue is R2.

    So, yeah. Fan Out. You know what I use it for? Applying VM on the mental defectives standing in a giant clump, asking for it. I then switch over to a cleric or mage, purge, and proceed to kill him with single target damage ( albeit V-E-R-Y slowly at my rank) which is, not shockingly, far higher per-target DPS than Fan Out. I don't ever get the KB. What I DO manage, however, is to debuff the tasty mage/healer for my friendly neighborhood Warrior to go up and smash.

    This, of course, is when I'm in a premade. Outside of that, I typically die so quickly on my MM spec that it doesn't matter much WHAT button I press.

    I can't speak to MM Fan Out damage at R8. I can tell you, however, that it's hitting for 100-200 damage at my rank. Now, if you're complaining because 5 people can kill one person, think about what you're saying. If you're complaining because an R8 is killing your R4, think about what you're saying.
    Last edited by Ghostfire72; 10-04-2011 at 08:47 AM.

  3. #33
    Rift Chaser Ruprect1's Avatar
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    I think I am over it. Was just really frustrated this weekend with my mage and cleric healing being gimped so bad in Library with 10+ rogues in every WF reapplying the debuff constantly and getting hit for like 1k+ crits by 10+ rogues spamming Fan Out and then a Deadeye for 2.5k+ killing me. I just stop healing and they die quick but so does my WF team and me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Englshredwolf View Post
    thanks point dexter, ill wait for some more comments from other, less rude people.

  4. #34
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    Oh, and an addendum:

    They will inevitably nerf VM. The relative merits of the skill don't matter -- the whinefest that is these forums virtually gaurantee that whatever class is being complained about will get a nerf, large or small. They can remove VM entirely, for all I care. Fan Out will be used simply for keeping people off flags, and the rare situations where I'm attacking a group of people with no healer. Doesn't matter to me -- and, I suspect, to most other competent rogues. What matters to them is the utter annoyance of being ignored for so long, and then have to face a wave of QQ from the uneducated and reactive masses.

    For the record, MM isn't the most powerful soul/spec in 1.5. Nightblade is. The difference is, the Nightblade specs are harder to effectively use, and, therefore, are less common.
    Last edited by Ghostfire72; 10-04-2011 at 08:56 AM.

  5. #35
    Rift Chaser Ruprect1's Avatar
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    1 MM spamming Fan Out is not a problem it is when the other entire team is using it in unison, that is what was annoying me. 1 rogue spamming Fan Out is not at all a problem. This whole nerdrage thing was the massive amounts of them in all of the WF's all of the sudden all doing it at the same time....lol

    Edit: Not crying for nerfs just venting a little.
    Last edited by Ruprect1; 10-04-2011 at 08:59 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Englshredwolf View Post
    thanks point dexter, ill wait for some more comments from other, less rude people.

  6. #36
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    I love fan out. Playing a sin, it allows me to tear thru the lines of MM shooting it at one another. Only when it knocks me out of stealth is it really annoying.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruprect1 View Post
    1 MM spamming Fan Out is not a problem it is when the other entire team is using it in unison, that is what was annoying me. 1 rogue spamming Fan Out is not at all a problem. This whole nerdrage thing was the massive amounts of them in all of the WF's all of the sudden all doing it at the same time....lol

    Edit: Not crying for nerfs just venting a little.
    Believe it or not, it annoys me, too. I was levelling my rogue before 1.5 was even announced. Now I get the accusations of FOTM, etc. Also, I had a TON of fun on my rogue, pre-1.5 -- but, then, I was playing in the lower levels where rogues didn't have the issues they had before the patch. I was smashing people before the patch, but I really can't speak to level 50 play before then.

    Thing is, mages are next on the buff list. If they make any positive changes to mage AoE abilities, the current situation is going to seem like a pleasant memory -- you will have classes that actually CAN do the damage the hyperbole-laden threads that have been going on for a week now claim.

    I have my own theories on why MMO devs do this, which are not relevant in this thread. However, what is relelvant is this: honestly compare mage AoE damage to MM AoE damage, and then imagine things with a 10% damage buff in favor of mages, and Fan Out/VM nerfed.

    I dunno about you, but I really don't want to play in YET ANOTHER mmo where mages get to be the heroes, everyone else gets to support them, and, oh yeah, in this game mages get to heal like clerics. That is, however, where we will be in a month if MMs are brought down much, damage-wise.
    Last edited by Ghostfire72; 10-04-2011 at 09:10 AM.

  8. #38
    Champion of Telara Arcshayde's Avatar
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    Would this really be an issue if Trion hadn't introduced Munitions right alongside a new wf that encourages aoe spamming?
    Last edited by Arcshayde; 10-04-2011 at 09:40 AM.
    Shayde@Seastone

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostfire72 View Post
    For the record, MM isn't the most powerful soul/spec in 1.5. Nightblade is. The difference is, the Nightblade specs are harder to effectively use, and, therefore, are less common.
    NB does less dps, has the same healing leach and has to be in melee range to get it to proc...
    I don't see your point
    They get 1, 2, possibly 3 defensive CDs if you decide to completely waste 13 points in the tree to get to 44 points when a 35 meter range is innately much better (it also can't be purged ><)
    sooo....

    maybe you mean its better when you spec into both MM and NB for the double heal leaching goodness... because nightblade in and of itself can't even compare to MM as a main soul. It has no eradicate, bad consistent dps, no dmg reduction to make up for the melee range, no warfront utility...

    I agree its a harder soul to play but at best it can be a better tanking soul since you can put more points in riftstalker to get a bunch of passive dmg reductions to tag on with the heal leaching, other than that its all around 2nd rate to MM
    Last edited by garethh; 10-04-2011 at 10:10 AM.

  10. #40
    Champion Marnos's Avatar
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    Perhaps I am guilty of fotm syndrome since I never used fan out before, but its a good way to set the tempo of the fight, determine the weaker targets, as well as the opposing teams capability to heal. After a few jerks of the trigger pumping out loads of fan out, you can see who to focus your fire on to kill first. If after three volleys you see multiple half dead opponents, would it not make sense to finish them all off? Also, fan out ignores stealth, so this is also a viable way to bring those "gankstas" out of hiding.

    ~Cheers

    Cheetah (Zebra and Marnos) of Sunrest

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by garethh View Post
    NB does less dps, has the same healing leach and has to be in melee range to get it to proc...
    I don't see your point
    They get 1, 2, possibly 3 defensive CDs if you decide to completely waste 13 points in the tree to get to 44 points when a 35 meter range is innately much better (it also can't be purged ><)
    sooo....

    maybe you mean its better when you spec into both MM and NB for the double heal leaching goodness... because nightblade in and of itself can't even compare to MM as a main soul. It has no eradicate, bad consistent dps, no dmg reduction to make up for the melee range, no warfront utility...

    I agree its a harder soul to play but at best it can be a better tanking soul since you can put more points in riftstalker to get a bunch of passive dmg reductions to tag on with the heal leaching, other than that its all around 2nd rate to MM
    A well-played NB/RS does good (though not great) DPS, but has /huge/ burst if correctly played. In addition, it is the most mobile class in the game, has several self-heals, has several 'you can't hurt me' buttons, and tons of utility. That setup is like a mini-tank with a slow-to-reload howitzer for a weapon. For taking on 1 or 2 key targets in a group situation, it is, IMO, the best class in the game.

    2 heads-up healers in a group negate 4 or more monkey-spam MMs. I know this first hand, as I am blessed with 2 excellent healers in my premade. I know, it's hard to believe, but with one person primarily cleansing and the other primarily healing, staying alive through RandomMM12345's Fan Out/VM spam is trivial.

    A well-played NB, by comparison, can set up his huge spike from range, warp in, deliver massive spike damage, lock down someone else with a mez while he does it, and warp back out. Lest you think it's impossible, I watched the rogue in my premade do it last night. The warrior ran in, created panic, the rogue killed the marked target. Rinse. Repeat.

    KBs and damage done on the scoreboard are somewhat pointless. Or, at least, they don't tell the entire tale. Same with healing. Massive heal numbers mean nothing. Being able to juggle the party's health bars and current stun/fear/debuff/buff/etc state while selectively applying the most appropriate healing for the situation (hint: it's not always the big group heal) isn't reflected on the scoreboard.

    What /is/ reflected is the fact that team a won the scenario 1000 to 50, and had 150 total kills to the other side's 20. That's all that counts in this game, and the NB is more deadly at removing key targets than an MM in that context.

    This isn't to say MM's are useless -- my poiny is that their role isn't damage, per se -- it's damage on the proper target + debuffing + removing the other guy's buffs. But for sheer ability to kill selected targets? I'd take a good NB over a good MM on most days. YMMV, however.

    TL;DR My /opinion/ is that NB/RS setups are a better class than MMs. However, both have a valid role -- I just think NBs are better able to kill key targets and do it without dying.
    Last edited by Ghostfire72; 10-04-2011 at 11:39 AM.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostfire72 View Post
    A well-played NB/RS does good (though not great) DPS, but has /huge/ burst if correctly played. In addition, it is the most mobile class in the game, has several self-heals, has several 'you can't hurt me' buttons, and tons of utility. That setup is like a mini-tank with a slow-to-reload howitzer for a weapon. For taking on 1 or 2 key targets in a group situation, it is, IMO, the best class in the game.

    TL;DR My /opinion/ is that NB/RS setups are a better class than MMs. However, both have a valid role -- I just think NBs are better able to kill key targets and do it without dying.
    Yes a well played, high RR soul in a coordinated premade can do good things...
    NB has 1, 2 min CD, self heal and its a nerf from the prepatch version in any situation were you are getting decent heals already.
    NB has 2 other defensive CDs, that make it seem very tanky for 14 seconds every 2 minutes when thier isn't a purging MM around, also they give up any chance at good consistent dps for them.
    NB is good when you have a solid healer behind you so you don't have to blow needless CDs, but so are most classes, or when you are only doing small scattered fights every 2 minutes against no one with eradicate.

    It obviously does have its uses but to excell it involves solid coordinated play. MM on the other hand doesn't.

    It has every buff it needs all rolled up into one convinient top notch ranged dps soul. A good MM can eradicate a good NB shutting him down without question. A good MM has deaden on a 8? sec CD to shutup healers/caster. A good MM has intense ST dps to spike down near anyone at 35 meters away without the limitations of CDs. There really isn't much of a comparison when MM also have the same leaching heal debuff that nightblades do.

    The only way they might is with the waves of bad MM running threw lvl 50 atm, wanting their shot at being an OP soul
    Last edited by garethh; 10-04-2011 at 12:49 PM.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by garethh View Post
    Yes a well played, high RR soul in a coordinated premade can do good things...
    NB has 1, 2 min CD, self heal and its a nerf from the prepatch version in any situation were you are getting decent heals already.
    NB has 2 other defensive CDs, that make it seem very tanky for 14 seconds every 2 minutes when thier isn't a purging MM around, also they give up any chance at good consistent dps for them.
    NB is good when you have a solid healer behind you so you don't have to blow needless CDs, but so are most classes, or when you are only doing small scattered fights every 2 minutes against no one with eradicate.

    It obviously does have its uses but to excell it involves solid coordinated play. MM on the other hand doesn't.

    It has every buff it needs all rolled up into one convinient top notch ranged dps soul. A good MM can eradicate a good NB shutting him down without question. A good MM has deaden on a 8? sec CD to shutup healers/caster. A good MM has intense ST dps to spike down near anyone at 35 meters away without the limitations of CDs. There really isn't much of a comparison when MM also have the same leaching heal debuff that nightblades do.

    The only way they might is with the waves of bad MM running threw lvl 50 atm, wanting their shot at being an OP soul
    To be fair, my POV is from a primarily premade-running one. Even when I PUG it up, I stick with a healer or warrior and make sure I get on the same target. Honestly, I have zero problems when I run as a NB with eradicate -- the /good/ MMs are concentrating on clerics. The bad ones can eradicate me all day, as far as I'm concerned, because that means my healer or warrior buddy is being left alone.

    My perspective is, yes, team play oreinted. Maybe that's the real problem -- NBs excel in a good team. MMs excel simply when there's a lot of them.

    To quote Stalin: Quantity has a quality all its own.
    Last edited by Ghostfire72; 10-04-2011 at 12:58 PM.

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