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Thread: How to Fix Bards: Yet Another Suggestion

  1. #1
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    Default How to Fix Bards: Yet Another Suggestion

    By now there've been several different suggestions for how to fix Bards. They're all worth looking at, and honestly I suspect most of us would be happy with any given one of them. Frankly, anything is better than the current model of "Put up your motifs once every 30 seconds, spam cadence". This one is mine. Comments and suggestions welcome.

    The Problem:

    The fundamental problem with bards right now (aside from their complete lack of scaling, that's a topic for another day) is that they're just plain boring to play. You have five motifs, five static buffs which always do the same thing, but have incredibly short durations. Every thirty seconds, you need to put up your five motifs. Once your motifs are up, there's not much else for you to do. Refresh your debuffs every minute (unless there's an Archon in your raid, in which case you don't bother), and other than that... yeah. Cadence is all you've got.

    How to Fix It:

    The concept for this is borrowed from another game you may have heard of, called Monster Hunter. In that game (well, some versions of it anyway), there is a weapon class called Hunting Horn. The way Hunting Horns work is that you have basic attacks, and a Recital Mode. During Recital Mode, the buttons that usually produce attacks instead produce Notes. Each horn has a set of three different notes, and certain note combinations produce different buff effects, such as increased resistance to wind pressure, reduction in stamina drain, healing, power increases, and etc. No one horn is capable of producing all effects, as they're limited to the three notes available to them, of which there are six or seven total. The basic attacks are there so that, once your buffs are out (they last from two to five minutes, depending on the strength of the buff), you're not completely useless. Much weaker than a "true" DPS, but not just sitting there filling in time between buff cycles.

    So, with all of that said, let's implement something similar for Rift bards. Why not make Motifs something you spec for (rather than the Anthems and Verses, as they are now), and have a static table of buffs that get placed on the raid when certain motifs are played in sequence? Limit the number of buffs that can be up per bard to force some choice in the matter. This accomplishes a few goals:
    1. There is a reason to have more than one bard per raid. No one bard can bring all of the possible bard buffs.
    2. Bard specs become more dynamic. Instead of "51 for VoJ or go home", you can now do hybrid bard/DPS builds to pick up only the motifs you need for the buff set you want. 51 bards still have a place, because they can inherently do any combination of buffs desired rather than being limited by their motiff set, and any 51-point buff (or special motiff that unlocks a set of buffs!) that may be deemed appropriate.
    3. Bards become more interesting to play. Instead of just spamming your five motifs once every 30 seconds, you craft your sequence of motifs to put up the buffs you or your raid wants; weave your motifs, and get creative with it.

    Want to make it even more interesting? Have motifs do something for the bard attack-wise such that motif order is meaningful beyond "which buff goes up first". There are a lot of open possibilities here.

    Ensembles (buffs that would depend on motif sequences from multiple bards) would be neat, but are beyond the scope of this current suggestion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sez View Post
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  2. #2
    Rift Disciple
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    I think Resonance has the right idea but Bard needs a bit more "Variety". So instead of keeping just the first 3 Motifs to get the +attribute buffs, maybe they can introduce more combinations of Motifs so Bard can decide what's more important to keep up running.

    For example, if you run Motif of Grandeur, Regeneration and Tenacity, it should provide more "defensive" buff like Reducing all control duration by X %.


    I am not sure how much the dev is willing to change/modify. I mean judging by how many changes Bard has received in 1.5 test (which is not many!!), the dev seems to be VERY comfortable with Bard's design atm.

    The only thing that we can hope for is nobody should ever "over-write" Bard's buffs. I don't play Archon but how come they can over-write Bard's buffs? The buff numbers are better? Is that why? Do Archon over-write Motifs or also Fanfare and Anthem?
    Last edited by Jibikaorift; 09-26-2011 at 11:55 AM.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isila View Post
    By now there've been several different suggestions for how to fix Bards.
    http://forums.riftgame.com/public-te...eamlining.html

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isila View Post
    The fundamental problem with bards right now (aside from their complete lack of scaling, that's a topic for another day) is that they're just plain boring to play.
    If you think it's boring then don't play it, enjoyment is completely subjective and the support role is not something for everyone. When DPS builds are more than mashing 1-3 macros you can talk about the Bard being boring. Also when I stop running into Bards who refresh their motifs with 6-7 seconds to go, use Power Chord when standing still, neglect to use Verse of Captivation (be it for interrupting or locking down a loose mob for the tanks to pick up), mash Chorus of Restoration when everyone is at full health, or lack the awareness to switch anthems mid fight as necessary. Heck I'd settle for someone who actually understands the importance of a proper sigil.

    I'm all for more tools to master (I quite like your suggestions) but from what I've seen of the current bard population there simply aren't enough people who understand how to play one as is.
    Greybriar Guardian Bard

  5. #5
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    If you look at the warden class from LotrO, it's very similar to this. Depending on what order you trigger things, you end up with a different buff, very fun class.

    My biggest problem playing bard, is that I wish I had some kind of burst healing. Even one on a 10 second cooldown ala bloom etc would be fine. Heck, put it at 51 points is fine.

  6. #6
    Koe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultrazen View Post

    My biggest problem playing bard, is that I wish I had some kind of burst healing. Even one on a 10 second cooldown ala bloom etc would be fine. Heck, put it at 51 points is fine.
    Bard isn't a healing class.
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  7. #7
    Plane Walker Vera's Avatar
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    Your post advocates a

    ( ) DPS ( ) Healing ( ) Combination DPS / Healing (X) Mechanical

    approach to patching Bard.

    Your idea will not work.

    Here is why it won't work. (One or more of the following may apply to your particular idea, and it may have other flaws which used to vary from patch to patch)

    (x) Raids were balanced around Bards as they currently are
    ( ) Bards are not a DPS soul. DPS is not an inherent feature of support
    ( ) Bards are not a healing soul. See above.
    (x) Your suggestion would require the addition of too many abilities
    (x) Your suggestion would remove one of the genuinely useful abilities
    ( ) Your suggestion would make Bard overpowered
    (x) Trion are not going to change the core rogue mechanics to suit one soul
    (x) Trion will not put up with it

    Specifically, your plan fails to account for

    ( ) Clerics complaining that Bards can out-heal them
    ( ) Chloromancers complaining that Bards can out-heal them
    ( ) Archons complaining that Bards can both out-heal AND out-DPS them
    (x) Warriors complaining about everything, at the slightest provocation
    (x) Issues regarding balancing loot tables
    (x) The inherent problems of adding mandatory items at this late stage
    (x) Trion being unwilling to make radical changes to a soul
    ( ) Other people finding abilities useful, even if you do not yourself
    ( ) ******s
    (x) The requirement to balance the soul for both PvE and PvP use
    (x) People who are generally happy with the soulís functioning
    ( ) Bard scaling having a deleterious effect on lowbies
    ( ) The scaling that already exists for the Bard soul
    ( ) This is only a video game
    ( ) Motif of Regeneration stealing aggro on pulls

    and the following philosophical objections may also apply:

    ( ) Feeling insignificant as a raid member is a not a balance issue
    ( ) You are never required to go Bard. Donít like it? Find a new guild.
    ( ) Increasing Bard DPS will not make the role any more enjoyable to play
    ( ) Increasing Bard HPS will not make the role any more enjoyable to play
    ( ) Motif of Encouragement is a bonus, not a replacement for something useful
    ( ) Your suggestions would be completely out-of-character for a Bard
    ( ) Spamming Cadence and CoR is not that different to any other soulsí rotations
    ( ) If Bards are so worthless, why are they always part of a raid?
    ( ) Killing them that way is not slow and painful enough

    Furthermore, this is what I think about you:

    (x) Sorry dude, but I don't think it would work.
    ( ) This is a stupid idea, and you're a stupid person for suggesting it.
    ( ) Nice try, assh0le! I'm going to find out where you live and burn your
    house down!

    I adapted this from the legendary slashdot thread to speed up my responses to the millions of Bard threads. In summary:

    Love it, love everything about your idea, but it's not going to happen in a million years.

  8. #8
    Telaran Finis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vera View Post
    Your post advocates a

    ( ) DPS ( ) Healing ( ) Combination DPS / Healing (X) Mechanical

    approach to patching Bard.

    .....
    Epic. Love it.
    Someone feeling wronged is like someone feeling thirsty. Donít tell them they arenít. Sit with them and have a drink.

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