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Thread: 1.5 PTR - MM and movement still not friendly enough - a few ideas

  1. #1
    Rift Master Carthoris's Avatar
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    Default 1.5 PTR - MM and movement still not friendly enough - a few ideas

    Thought of a few things that (to me) would make the MM soul more in-line with the stated dev goals of being more movement-friendly and viable. I thought about posting this in the PTR forums but I'm still not sure if that's supposed to be for suggestions. Anyway,

    First off, make Master Archer fully active, all the time. The soul is performing at a decent level in PvE only while standing still, and to lose such a large portion of DPS due to any movement is contrary to the stated goals.

    Second, reduce the energy cost and halve the period on Strafe. Instead of having the CP generation and damage ticks at 0s, 1s, 2s, 3s, and 4s, have it occur at 0s, 0.5s, 1s, 1.5s, and 2s. Right now the skill is *still* woefully lackluster - it needs to be something a MM looks at and says "Hey, Strafe is off CD! Maybe I should use it soon!" instead of mostly ignoring it, in both PvE and PvP.

    Finally, tie the MM movement-related... stuff... into Empowered Shot and Deadeye Shot, something like this:

    If the total damage on the PTR of a SS+procs is, say, 1.0, then have ES/DS be:

    ES: 30e. While standing still: Cast time of 0.0, damage of 1.5, awards 2 CP, 8s CD
    While moving: Channeled cast time of 1.0/1.5, damage of 2.0/2.5, awards 2 CP, 6s CD
    Think of it like you're trading a little extra damage and recovery time to fire the shot instantly, or taking the time to aim properly and doing slightly more damage and recover faster while moving. Maybe tweak the ability so if you stop moving early, it fires the "standing still" shot and possibly adjust the CDs accordingly.

    DS: 40e, scaling as other finishers with CPs. While standing still: Cast time of 0.5, damage of 4.5/5.0
    While moving: Cast time of 0.0, damage of 4.0
    In this case, it'd be as if you're quickly taking aim while standing still to finish the target off (since with the CP generation you've already "scoped out" the best spot to hit) versus firing off a quick finisher while moving.

    If tweaked properly, I feel like these would open up some interesting mechanics for MM in PvE where you'd want to be moving for maximum damage on your finisher, then standing still for max damage to builders, or vice versa. Nothing too serious, but a little something extra to let people who are really in to min-maxing have that ability to do so. In PvP it would (somewhat) alleviate the loss of HnR and still maintain the ability for the calling to continually be kiting in exchange for very slightly decreased overall DPS. Nothing would really make up for the 15s of pressure that HnR brought but being able to intelligently move in order to use the instant or casted versions of ES/DS would help.

    IMHO, DS (and RFS) should be the MM DPS finisher(s) of choice unless you're going for the speed buff from HS. You should *always* want to use ES when it's off cooldown or within a few seconds, and if you're just trying to kill something (i.e. max DPS) then DS/RFS should trump the other finishers, no matter if you're moving or standing still. The energy costs on Strafe, DS, and ES aren't what they should be - pooling energy to use skills isn't fun and almost always results in a DPS loss. The cooldown on those abilities is balance enough, let the energy costs be the same as the rest of the MM skills.

    I feel like for the dev goals to be successful then the top MM PvE DPS while moving - with no stopping at all, ever - needs to be no less than 90% of full-on no movement DPS, and in PvP you shouldn't be standing still unless you're dead or in an extremely safe position, out of harm's way.
    Last edited by Carthoris; 09-24-2011 at 09:41 PM.

  2. #2
    RIFT Guide Writer Zyzyx's Avatar
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    put this in pts forum plz

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

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    RIFT Guide Writer Zyzyx's Avatar
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    Seems to me like most of the things you are talking about are intentionaly placed there to keep us from excelling in pvp

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

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    Ascendant Gunzip's Avatar
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    They would have to nerf marksman mobility if you want all that damage plus current marksman mobility. The way it's balanced right now for pvp is the correct way, TRION did a good job with marksman PVP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    I believe Assassin DoTs are uncleansable.

    It's still a terrible PvP spec compared to Marksman, though.

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    Ascendant Gunzip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zyzyx View Post
    Seems to me like most of the things you are talking about are intentionaly placed there to keep us from excelling in pvp
    Marksman has tons of mobility, it was balanced around those premise, MM can do 100% of their damage from ranged.
    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    I believe Assassin DoTs are uncleansable.

    It's still a terrible PvP spec compared to Marksman, though.

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    Ascendant Nadili's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunzip View Post
    They would have to nerf marksman mobility if you want all that damage plus current marksman mobility. The way it's balanced right now for pvp is the correct way, TRION did a good job with marksman PVP.
    Depends on what the actual goal was with MM it's fine for pvp for pve it's going to be lackluster on many fights. They could just toggle the skill to have movement for pve and none for pvp. They have already done this with other souls so I don't see it being a huge headache.

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    The damage from MM right now most likely is not in line from what it did on live with HiR while standing still. With the loss of so much damage while moving it doesnt even compare to what it should be doing. They really need to change it so it loses less damage while moving cause its just stupid to take away so much.

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    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
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    i like where mm is now, if you wanna dps u stand still, if that warrior is charging you and you start to run away, your dmg should lower (as that is realistic since you would miss more often, tho you wont in this game but meh). also stopping to do big attacks should be the way it is.
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    Ascendant Gunzip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hokonoso View Post
    i like where mm is now, if you wanna dps u stand still, if that warrior is charging you and you start to run away, your dmg should lower (as that is realistic since you would miss more often, tho you wont in this game but meh). also stopping to do big attacks should be the way it is.
    I have been trying to say this, but they wont believe me, MM is fine on the PTR.
    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    I believe Assassin DoTs are uncleansable.

    It's still a terrible PvP spec compared to Marksman, though.

  10. #10
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Dunharrow's Avatar
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    Strafe should still last 4 seconds, but it should allow you to keep using other abilities while its up, so it adds to your damage instead of replacing it. To compensate for this, they could increase the cooldown and remove the CP generation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hokonoso View Post
    i like where mm is now, if you wanna dps u stand still, if that warrior is charging you and you start to run away, your dmg should lower (as that is realistic since you would miss more often, tho you wont in this game but meh). also stopping to do big attacks should be the way it is.
    Oh good, the realism argument. You make a good point. When I am on my way home from work each day, and shooting my bow at the armored dwarf who is throwing flaming spears at me, I do tend to miss more when I am running away and jump spinning to fire arrow after arrow into his chest. I knew I should have taken the Highway 290 exit.
    Last edited by Dunharrow; 09-26-2011 at 02:26 AM.

  11. #11
    Plane Touched Temko Firewing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunharrow View Post

    Oh good, the realism argument. You make a good point. When I am on my way home from work each day, and shooting my bow at the armored dwarf who is throwing flaming spears at me, I do tend to miss more when I am running away and jump spinning to fire arrow after arrow into his chest. I knew I should have taken the Highway 290 exit.

    i dont know about you mate, but i sure as hell dont run from no dwarf. have you seen their stumpy legs? just punt 'm and measure flying distance!

    hell, holland had a sport untill it was banned called "Dwarf Tossing" where we shot RL mini-people in a medivial catapult... and they ****ing PAID to get shot in a catapult.

    so ye, take the 296 next time. ;)

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  12. #12
    Rift Disciple
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    or jus keep trucking down the pike

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