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Thread: DPS numbers w/in 5% of Sabdancer but 20% less than warriors is 0 improvement on 9/28

  1. #1
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    Exclamation DPS numbers w/in 5% of Sabdancer but 20% less than warriors is 0 improvement on 9/28

    That's what all of you can expect on Wednesday. This entire month of testing has been an utter failure. Yay, I can play MM on like 5 HK fights. That's it. Really. Just don't move though..... We waited all this time for that?

    Haven't Assassin's been the highest single target dps in every game since Frogger? The downside is usually 0 aoe, you gotta melee and get no utility? Yet not a single viable pve spec since day 1 has ever used anything over 20 in the Assassin soul. Yeah that's right, a completely useless 31 other points. One glaring example of many.

    Things looked promising when those first patch notes went up on test. Heck, even before there were notes. Rogue's were saying I'm coming back to the game. Sign me up for another year etc? Now, it's the opposite. They nerfed anything promising to the ground. Killed burst damage in pvp and now potentially put us in last place in aoe damage. Yeah, that's behind clerics people.

    Whetstones working and energy at 23 are giving people inflated numbers that are making them say wow, look at my damage here vs live. Don't even get me started on 4 piece set items being used in parses to "prove" dps is worth it.

    Sicaron is the kiss of death for Trion. They put in a raid mob that took everyone's dps and made it scale up. Once you see Warriors blowing the doors off Rogues there, you say hmmmm.

    What all Rogue souls need right now is a flat 10% damage increase across the board. Everything. That's it. I just solved your year long problem in 10 seconds. Sort out the Hit & Run, burst, pvp issues later. You know how it was 30 days ago. Then you decided to nerf everything back.

    In closing,
    DPS numbers w/in 5% of Sabdancer but 20% less than warriors is 0 improvement on 9/28. The entire month will have been a waste. Good luck in 1.6 Rogue tanks. You are gonna need it after this Boston Red Sox like collapse.
    Last edited by Petgroup; 09-24-2011 at 10:46 AM.

  2. #2
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    I just love hearing rogues complain about getting destroyed by warriors, if you are not within 100-200dps of warriors in all fights except Sicaron, you're doing something wrong, last time I checked 150~dps is nowhere near 20% of 2K+DPS
    Last edited by Kalevala; 09-25-2011 at 07:21 AM. Reason: Trolling

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fattslice View Post
    I just love hearing rogues complain about getting destroyed by warriors, if you are not within 100-200dps of warriors in all fights except Sicaron, you're doing something wrong, last time I checked 150~dps is nowhere near 20% of 2K+DPS
    Did you miss the part where my title said 20%, yet I asked for 10% buff across the board? Why would I do that?

    Thanks for proving my point since 10% of 2k is 200 which is exactlly the amount you magically came up with.

    I love how sicaron is exempt yet his is the glaring reason of why dps is unbalanced.
    Last edited by Kalevala; 09-25-2011 at 07:22 AM. Reason: Reply to edited post

  4. #4
    Rift Disciple Locovato's Avatar
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    Well to be honest, rogues dps is that much lower then warriors because its bleeds/5 combo point burst. Warriors dps is like.. 3 bottom mashing each conributing sustained high crit numbers. So in theory, if MM is hitting around similar numbers to Sabdancer, but its sustained... we should see not = to, but higher numbers on sicaron.

    I will say though, its annoying all the hassle to switch set bonus's to make spec's viable. I have my 4peice p8, 2 hk mh's (44.7-44.8 dps), hk trash gun (55 dps), 2 piece hk armor (belt, helm) and non set hk gloves. If i have to switch out my armor to 4peice raid t1, farm up a greater essence, to make a spec compete, or even viable in the raid its kinda of silly. Not to mention, sabdancer is dmg on the run, theres no stoping you from applying charges, to where MM's bread and butter is when your stationary running through your rotation.

    I don't feel soul's dps output should be calculated with (soul specific) synergy crystals or greaters. I feel like focusing on the base dmg output to scale within our current souls (that arn't using greater/synergy) should be the primary focus. I mean... they are a bonus right? like the cherry on top for completing another set piece (which takes for ever, 10/11 hk and i only have 2 (set) pieces).

    Its quite simple, do like the OP suggested and boost rogues dps by about 10% base, then when rogues acquire these cherry on the top (set bonus's) let that be a reward for grinding out an instance for months. And in addition maybe you wouldn't have to nerf every single boss in hammerknell (reducing hp, and pushing back enrage timers) because the raids dps would be increased.

    Also something to keep in mind. We are testing new spec variations either (A) HK relics, (B) HK crystals, (C) Raid t1 crystals, 2 of which, maybe 5% of people actually have live, and lastly, something that is coming up in a future update that isn't available live yet. In conclusion you realize by comparing these "fictional" rogues with live warriors only means that when the warriors get their wishlist they are going to gain just like us?

    Which makes me wonder, are we going through this up-comming change to make rogues souls viable compared to other rogue souls (if so, i still see some lacking) or, is the rogue change to make rogues viable in raids for contending with #1 dps?

    All i ask trion is you don't resort to:
    1. Nerfing warrior dps (i'm aware of the bug)
    2. Nerfing Sab dps
    3. Leaving sab as our primary most consistent single target dps
    4. Nerfing Raid content because people hit enrage timers, or struggle to burst down adds.
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  5. #5
    Ascendant MoonfireSpam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petgroup View Post
    They nerfed anything promising to the ground. Killed burst damage in pvp and now potentially put us in last place in aoe damage. Yeah, that's behind clerics people.
    No one's got anything on a cabalist played right in terms of AoE damage.

    But we can incriminate that and not die horrible deaths to angry mobs.

    ... or you can incriminate it onto the cabalist =D Help him lower his dps by making him eat dirt!

  6. #6
    Rift Chaser Drathmar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Locovato View Post
    Well to be honest, rogues dps is that much lower then warriors because its bleeds/5 combo point burst. Warriors dps is like.. 3 bottom mashing each conributing sustained high crit numbers. So in theory, if MM is hitting around similar numbers to Sabdancer, but its sustained... we should see not = to, but higher numbers on sicaron.

    I will say though, its annoying all the hassle to switch set bonus's to make spec's viable. I have my 4peice p8, 2 hk mh's (44.7-44.8 dps), hk trash gun (55 dps), 2 piece hk armor (belt, helm) and non set hk gloves. If i have to switch out my armor to 4peice raid t1, farm up a greater essence, to make a spec compete, or even viable in the raid its kinda of silly. Not to mention, sabdancer is dmg on the run, theres no stoping you from applying charges, to where MM's bread and butter is when your stationary running through your rotation.

    I don't feel soul's dps output should be calculated with (soul specific) synergy crystals or greaters. I feel like focusing on the base dmg output to scale within our current souls (that arn't using greater/synergy) should be the primary focus. I mean... they are a bonus right? like the cherry on top for completing another set piece (which takes for ever, 10/11 hk and i only have 2 (set) pieces).

    Its quite simple, do like the OP suggested and boost rogues dps by about 10% base, then when rogues acquire these cherry on the top (set bonus's) let that be a reward for grinding out an instance for months. And in addition maybe you wouldn't have to nerf every single boss in hammerknell (reducing hp, and pushing back enrage timers) because the raids dps would be increased.

    Also something to keep in mind. We are testing new spec variations either (A) HK relics, (B) HK crystals, (C) Raid t1 crystals, 2 of which, maybe 5% of people actually have live, and lastly, something that is coming up in a future update that isn't available live yet. In conclusion you realize by comparing these "fictional" rogues with live warriors only means that when the warriors get their wishlist they are going to gain just like us?

    Which makes me wonder, are we going through this up-comming change to make rogues souls viable compared to other rogue souls (if so, i still see some lacking) or, is the rogue change to make rogues viable in raids for contending with #1 dps?

    All i ask trion is you don't resort to:
    1. Nerfing warrior dps (i'm aware of the bug)
    2. Nerfing Sab dps
    3. Leaving sab as our primary most consistent single target dps
    4. Nerfing Raid content because people hit enrage timers, or struggle to burst down adds.
    Everything being tested is coming up in a future patch so your point about t1 raid crystals is moot.
    Last edited by Drathmar; 09-25-2011 at 02:01 AM.

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    I could deal with being slightly lower in DPS as long as I wasn't so massively gimped by target switching. The fact that warriors effectively carry their CPs on themself, not on the target, gives them a massive advantage. On Murdantix and Plutonus, I can out-DPS most of our warriors, or at least be sufficiently close as to make no real difference, but as soon as there's anything with target switches I can lose anything up to a third of my optimum DPS.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimboTCB View Post
    I could deal with being slightly lower in DPS as long as I wasn't so massively gimped by target switching. The fact that warriors effectively carry their CPs on themself, not on the target, gives them a massive advantage. On Murdantix and Plutonus, I can out-DPS most of our warriors, or at least be sufficiently close as to make no real difference, but as soon as there's anything with target switches I can lose anything up to a third of my optimum DPS.
    I thought the same thing and then grouped with some better warriors. I can hit 2200 on Murdantex, which I think is 100 dps under the highest claimed by a rogue. In our raid that puts me as tied for 4th, behind 3 warriors and tied with a warrior with crap gear who rerolled from a rogue. Has any rogue ever hit 2650 on Murdantex? No, I don't think so.

    There are some new changes on test so I'll have to check them out, but I doubt we'll hit warrior numbers plus we're bad at switches.. plus now we're inferrior in aoe with the new PTS version. It might be that ranger-mm hybrids or MM might be our highest aoe build... I can't say that we'll be the worst class in aoe, but I can say the shrapnel nerf was dumb.
    Last edited by Mayi; 09-25-2011 at 06:41 AM.

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    RIFT Fan Site Operator Dunharrow's Avatar
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    I'm just laughing quietly to myself about people defending the current situation. Warrior DPS "rotation"
    • Non-stop Power Strikes
    • Off-global spam
    That's literally ALL they do. Even their finisher is just another off-global. Meanwhile rogues have significantly more complex rotations to do significantly less damage, and that damage was nerfed. Awesome.

  10. #10
    Koe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunharrow View Post
    I'm just laughing quietly to myself about people defending the current situation. Warrior DPS "rotation"
    • Non-stop Power Strikes
    • Off-global spam
    That's literally ALL they do. Even their finisher is just another off-global. Meanwhile rogues have significantly more complex rotations to do significantly less damage, and that damage was nerfed. Awesome.
    The rotation involves Rising Waterfall, and albeit their rotation is only 5 skills(2x fiery Burst per SLI), it is still complicated in execution. You have to manage all your GCDs and Frenzied Strike to try to get as close to a 1:1 Power Strike:Rising Waterfall ratio.


    Edit: Also, Rogue rotations are only complex if you don't use macros.
    Last edited by Koe; 09-25-2011 at 07:30 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koe View Post
    The rotation involves Rising Waterfall, and albeit their rotation is only 5 skills(2x fiery Burst per SLI), it is still complicated in execution. You have to manage all your GCDs and Frenzied Strike to try to get as close to a 1:1 Power Strike:Rising Waterfall ratio.


    Edit: Also, Rogue rotations are only complex if you don't use macros.
    You're dumb.

  12. #12
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    Parachamp is hard guys.

  13. #13
    Qia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neonaraj View Post
    You're dumb.
    He was talking about 2hander Warrior build. You are dumb.
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  14. #14
    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koe View Post
    The rotation involves Rising Waterfall, and albeit their rotation is only 5 skills(2x fiery Burst per SLI), it is still complicated in execution. You have to manage all your GCDs and Frenzied Strike to try to get as close to a 1:1 Power Strike:Rising Waterfall ratio.


    Edit: Also, Rogue rotations are only complex if you don't use macros.
    the RW rotation is complex, but none of the others are, and 90% or more of the warriors i see raiding dont even do the correct RW rotation and oft use an easier 2 button mash one. rogue rotations are slightly more complex but not by much, but rogues are still only 2nd to mage for complex rotations, clerics and warriors have the easiest by a nice margin.
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  15. #15
    Rift Chaser tteen6789's Avatar
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    hoko once again you overreact and misstate the facts. the best dps soul is now either a 24 assasin or a 36 assasin. please stop over reacting

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