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Thread: What is wrong with Saboteur?

  1. #1
    RIFT Guide Writer Zyzyx's Avatar
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    Default What is wrong with Saboteur?

    It has been one of the souls in the rogue calling since beta.

    Why are some of you so upset with it now?
    What makes you not like it?


    I need to use 5-7 buttons in my sabdancer rotation. 3-4 for 44-46 sab variation. For these melee specs I only need 2 a cp builder macro and a finisher. Sabdancer requires the most focus and attention to get the best results. Therefore sabdancer is not easy to use or any more boring than other specs.

    The only spec that compares (and is perhaps more challenging) is nightblade. If you want a complicated spec to keep you on your toes go nightblade. If you want a lazy more boring spec go hoko or another sin/bd variant.

    I will ask again. What is wrong with saboteur?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

  2. #2
    Soulwalker
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    Really? people need to focus for this spec hrrmmmmm

    start off pre load 5spike toss up expose MD to the tank det
    then start your so complex rotation of

    bs,spikex4,dd(BD in macro along with trinkets) bs,spike, det
    5xshrap, det (after 1.5 replace shrap with blast for single target)
    rinise repeat. Exactly how is this complex?
    Last edited by Tyrent; 09-23-2011 at 09:44 AM.

  3. #3
    RIFT Guide Writer Zyzyx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrent View Post
    Really? people need to focus for this spec hrrmmmmm

    start off pre load 5spike toss up expose MD to the tank det
    then start your so complex rotation of

    bs,spikex4,dd(BD in macro along with trinkets) bs,spike, det
    5xshrap, det (after 1.5 replace shrap with blast for single target)
    rinise repeat. Exactly how is this complex?
    5 buttons

    How much more complex do you want it to be? Maybe you should try mage and their 12 button rotations.

    The only other options are 2 button melee / ranger specs. It is impossible to argue they are more complex than sabdancer with 2 buttons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

  4. #4
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    I only used it way back at launch and haven't touched it since. I don't like pets, and I don't like the bombs. I also don't use guns because I'm not playing counterstrike.

    I might give it another chance come 1.5 and try it out, but I generally like 51 point specs and I've never really liked the playstyle of the sab. I'm much more a sneaky stabby, or archer, style of person in fantasy games.

    I've been playing mostly the same specs since about 1.2 though, so it's about time I did a rewrite and spiced things up a bit. I've learned a lot over the past months and noticed a few inefficiencies that need to be corrected.

  5. #5
    Plane Touched
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    I think its more along the lines of people are finally getting tired of it being pretty much the only spec you can use competitively in raids, they are ready for something that doesn't use the saboteur soul.

  6. #6
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zyzyx View Post
    5 buttons

    How much more complex do you want it to be? Maybe you should try mage and their 12 button rotations.

    The only other options are 2 button melee / ranger specs. It is impossible to argue they are more complex than sabdancer with 2 buttons.

    Its mind numbing is what it is and its the same damn spec I have been playing for months.... I grow tired and would LOVE a change

  7. #7
    Rift Disciple
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traciatim View Post
    I don't like pets, and I don't like the bombs. I also don't use guns because I'm not playing counterstrike.
    Huh? Sabs don't have pets, and I rarely see a rogue that's got a gun equipped instead of a bow.

  8. #8
    Prophet of Telara
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    All in all, they just did the class wrong for me. Saboteur should be a debuff/trap class. Not a gimmicky ranged one. Hell, even the way they did it is wrong. Bombs are useless, 9/10ths of the charges are useless, traps are useless...75% of the abilities need a rework.

    Oh, and I'm tired as hell of playing it because I *have* to for raids.
    Last edited by Calo; 09-23-2011 at 10:13 AM.

  9. #9
    Ascendant Adnoz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zyzyx View Post
    It has been one of the souls in the rogue calling since beta.

    Why are some of you so upset with it now?
    What makes you not like it?


    I need to use 5-7 buttons in my sabdancer rotation. 3-4 for 44-46 sab variation. For these melee specs I only need 2 a cp builder macro and a finisher. Sabdancer requires the most focus and attention to get the best results. Therefore sabdancer is not easy to use or any more boring than other specs.

    The only spec that compares (and is perhaps more challenging) is nightblade. If you want a complicated spec to keep you on your toes go nightblade. If you want a lazy more boring spec go hoko or another sin/bd variant.

    I will ask again. What is wrong with saboteur?
    Clicked rogue in january (then, again, in february) thinking "**** year stabby stabby pokey with daggers and ****" not "stabby.. tick.. tick.. tick.. tick.. poke.. stabby.. tick.. boom" and every patch but one I have been stuck playing sabo builds if I wanted to do real dps, I was hoping this patch would finally change it. Trion failed to deliver when they left saboteur with best utility, high-to-best single target, best aoe, most mobile, functional from range, all the while leaving other specs with only sabo tier single target to their name.

    I actually envy warriors now, not for their #1 single target DPS, but for the fact that over the last few months they've had changes, new rotations to learn, new specs to theorycraft, new bugs to work around and play with. What have we had? We've had sabo, then we had nightblade for a patch, then we had deadly dance sabo, then we had deadly dance sabo 2.0, then we had deadly dance sabo 2.0 again, now we have deadly dance sabo 2.0 again again.

    It isn't about complex rotations, or number of buttons to press, it's about the stupid clunky playstyle of an entirely backloaded soul and being pushed towards it every patch over and over.

    All IMO, of course, I don't presume to speak for anyone else )

    (Gear)

  10. #10
    RIFT Guide Writer Zyzyx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrent View Post
    Its mind numbing is what it is and its the same damn spec I have been playing for months.... I grow tired and would LOVE a change
    So you think 2 buttons instead of 5 will be less mind numbing?

    How does this thought process work?

    With the current pts changes you will be able to pick anything and get good dps.

    If you don't like pets or guns or sab try the mandancer(my spec =D) its doing around 1950 dps in full relic with bd crystal. Which while isn't as high as the new 46 sab is still pretty close. (nb and rs/bd variants are around here too!)

    If you want to play with guns and do counterstrike it looks like MM will be the highest overall st dps if you can stand still.

    EDIT: I do agree with you too calo. They need to buff bombs / traps more so that they are worth being in the rotation.
    Last edited by Zyzyx; 09-23-2011 at 10:18 AM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

  11. #11
    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zyzyx View Post
    It has been one of the souls in the rogue calling since beta.

    Why are some of you so upset with it now?
    What makes you not like it?


    I need to use 5-7 buttons in my sabdancer rotation. 3-4 for 44-46 sab variation. For these melee specs I only need 2 a cp builder macro and a finisher. Sabdancer requires the most focus and attention to get the best results. Therefore sabdancer is not easy to use or any more boring than other specs.

    The only spec that compares (and is perhaps more challenging) is nightblade. If you want a complicated spec to keep you on your toes go nightblade. If you want a lazy more boring spec go hoko or another sin/bd variant.

    I will ask again. What is wrong with saboteur?
    bah, use my rotations and macros and nightblade is easy!!!! less buttons than sabodancer and super easy rotation :P

    90% of the time i dont mind sabodancer tbh, i just hate the spotters order nerf to my pet, i want my pet to scale!!!! saboteur or sabodancer can stay where it is, i use it, everyone uses it, but my poor wolf!!!!! fortunately this patch upped my spec a nice enough amount to be useful, especially since the rotation is so easy for good dps.
    Useful Rogue guides since I don't want to answer 50 billion questions anymore:
    Marksman, Ranger, Nightblade, Blink'Blade, Asstalker, Assdancer, and finally The Hoko Spec™
    Hoko, teaching noobs the way of rogue pve until 12/20/11.

  12. #12
    Plane Walker Enaki's Avatar
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    I love the idea of the Sab, It feels unique to me (though that could be based on the MMOs I've played) in both the idea and the mechanics.

    The thing that bothers me about the class is that there are three major damage/effect paths and there is almost no synergy to them. I would love to see more ways for Bombs to effect Chargers and Charges to effect Bombs.

    But meh, what do I know. At least they fixed it so that we actually have a reason to use our ST charge on ST fights.
    Telarans on class balance: Rock is overpowered. Paper is fine. - Scissors

  13. #13
    RIFT Guide Writer Zyzyx's Avatar
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    I'd like to see traps become more effective too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

  14. #14
    Telaran sabbey's Avatar
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    I checked some videos on youtube the other night to see if I may want to try the soul out eventually since I'd like to have at least one AOE spec eventually and it looked like it could be fun to play. Overall, it looked pretty good though can see how that might be boring if it's the only spec one might use for months and months of playing.

    I am still waiting to see how 1.5 is handled once it hits live but once I do that I might make another role for it until I need it for a PVP only spec later on.

  15. #15
    Rift Disciple sirdanile's Avatar
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    never liked the feel of it, and it doesn't synergize very well with the vast majority of souls out there, and for pvp the charges are cleansable...
    I place a black candle on your chest,
    the path of night is manifest.

    Sempresno Level 50 P6 Rogue/Marcosias Level 45 Warrior/Diclonius Level 26 Mage/Sumona Level 23 Cleric - Banished - Dayblind

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