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Thread: Experienced Raiding bard sought for Advice PLEASE...

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Default Experienced Raiding bard sought for Advice PLEASE...

    Heres the Questions. On a Raid what should be the primary function of barding and in what order of priority... I know this is open to alot of situational things but as a general rule of thumb.
    Here is what my thoughts would be and I need guidance as Im probably totally wrong....

    Buffing party initially with Knowledge or Power depending
    Keeping your 5 motifs up
    Changing between competence and Eiither Defiance, Fervor (if no mage), Glory, Vigor . Obviously this will be determined alot by encounter.
    Debuffing AoE pack with Distress and Cowardice
    Keeping VoJ on Cooldown all the time or when called for...
    Spamming Cord and cadence to either Restoration / Fury for Aoe packs / Wrath single target
    Using Captivation on mobs that it actually interupts there casting (Maybe having 15 point in BD for weapons barrage better?)
    And last but deff not least using Virt with Rift to insta AoE debuff , Catch a Healer up on AoE heals or Fury Large low HP mobs for Crowd control.

    AS far as the base 51 point bard goes is this in line with what he should be doing?

    Secondly what would be the best souls to add with barding in general ? I still have 8 NB (5 blazing fury, 3 unstable state) and 7 ranger (5 eagle eye, 2 Killing Focus for damage with cadence)
    I realize it depends on the situation and a good bard would probably have several souls dedicated with 51 bard and other 15 points spread into different tree's.
    What is the general consensus from you folks on different tactics and combinations to pair with please and why.
    *Verse of vitality even worth using the GCD for?*

    Thank you very much for your time and consideration. I am thinking about barding and currently were raiding HK 4/11.

    Gromler
    Belmont

    "Only stupid question is the one you fail to ask and needed to have"
    Last edited by Gromler; 09-22-2011 at 12:23 PM.

  2. #2
    Qia
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    Well you covered most of it if I understand correctly.

    As a subspec I would take ranger and Riftstalker. At higher ranks riftstalker gives very good AP bonus.

    Unless you are one of those bards that find Cadence healing the main healing ability of a Bard and would want to sleep with cadence cause you get an ****** everytime you cast it.
    Ip

  3. #3
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qia View Post
    Well you covered most of it if I understand correctly.

    As a subspec I would take ranger and Riftstalker. At higher ranks riftstalker gives very good AP bonus.

    Unless you are one of those bards that find Cadence healing the main healing ability of a Bard and would want to sleep with cadence cause you get an ****** everytime you cast it.
    Maybe I'm crazy, blind, or just dumb, but I have never once seen Ranger + Riftstalker out perform Nightblade + Either. I see a lot of people saying how awesome it is to take both, because you get extra survivability from Riftstalker via more health and blink, but let's be honest; if you NEED either of those things (which no other rogues have access to in current top dps specs) to survive any fight, then you've got a whole lot of other problems.

    On the other hand, if there are bards who do find Ranger + RS to perform better than NB + Either, I'd love to see comparisons between parses and what not, because like I said, maybe I'm just crazy.

  4. #4
    Telaran Khronic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gromler View Post
    Buffing party initially with Knowledge or Power depending
    Keeping your 5 motifs up
    Changing between competence and Eiither Defiance, Fervor (if no mage), Glory, Vigor . Obviously this will be determined alot by encounter.
    Debuffing AoE pack with Distress and Cowardice
    Keeping VoJ on Cooldown all the time or when called for...
    Spamming Cord and cadence to either Restoration / Fury for Aoe packs / Wrath single target
    Using Captivation on mobs that it actually interupts there casting (Maybe having 15 point in BD for weapons barrage better?)
    And last but deff not least using Virt with Rift to insta AoE debuff , Catch a Healer up on AoE heals or Fury Large low HP mobs for Crowd control.

    AS far as the base 51 point bard goes is this in line with what he should be doing?

    Secondly what would be the best souls to add with barding in general ? I still have 8 NB (5 blazing fury, 3 unstable state) and 7 ranger (5 eagle eye, 2 Killing Focus for damage with cadence)
    I realize it depends on the situation and a good bard would probably have several souls dedicated with 51 bard and other 15 points spread into different tree's.
    What is the general consensus from you folks on different tactics and combinations to pair with please and why.
    *Verse of vitality even worth using the GCD for?*

    Thank you very much for your time and consideration. I am thinking about barding and currently were raiding HK 4/11.

    Gromler
    Belmont

    "Only stupid question is the one you fail to ask and needed to have"
    Remember you can use LOS to buff both Knowledge and Power to their respective classes.

    Fervor > Living Energy - use it on any fight that does not require enhanced movement speed.

    Through personal testing, I have found that NB + Ranger has a slight edge on all other combinations as far as Cadence damage goes with a 51 point bard spec.

    Hope this helps.
    Khron | DPS Rogue

  5. #5
    Telaran
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    Thanks any more thoughts or stuff i might have missed

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    Prophet of Telara Raynald's Avatar
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    If you take rs though, remember that's one of the main ways to down Pluto by blinking past his fields. So long as you didn't decide to cheese the fight instead lol. So there's that alongside the AP.

    I thought the archon debuffs were better than codas of coward etc? And don't stack? But hey if your raid prefers you doing that go for it. God knows bards are bored to he'll anyway lol.
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    Koe
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    You will never be switching Anthems, unless someone dies. A mage will have living energy and you will have competence, or you will have fervor.

    LoS to get knowledge and power.

    Power Chord is only use for on-the-move CPs.

    Don't just spam CoR once you get 5 CPs. Keep cadencing until people take actual damage. Don't waste CPs on Coda of Wrath or the ST coda(whatever it may be).

    Use the 2 AoE debuff codas on bosses like Matron, Zilas, or Herald. The Archon can't debuff them all, and it's easier for the bard to do it. This is the ONLY time to use them. Do NOT overwrite the archon debuffs on a single target.

    Use 8 RS and 7 Ranger subs. Depending on if your guild wants an extra interrupt, you may be asked to run 13 BD and 2 RNG.

    VoC doesn't really interrupt most 20-man mobs. It lets the cast finish, if they can even be CC'd, and then saps them. You will very rarely use it, mostly for 10mans.

    Almost NEVER use Riff with Virutoso. You should know when AoE is coming, and have 5 CPs accordingly. Riff is used to space out your CDs. An example is on Hylas. Use Virtuoso on the first AoE, next use VoV, and then next use Riff. This let's you space out your heals more evenly.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gromler View Post
    *Verse of vitality even worth using the GCD for?*
    Considering it hits the entire raid and not just five people... yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raynald View Post
    I thought the archon debuffs were better than codas of coward etc? And don't stack? But hey if your raid prefers you doing that go for it. God knows bards are bored to he'll anyway lol.
    Archon debuffs are single target but last five minutes while the bards is AoE. Yes it will tick off the Archon because they'll need to reapply theirs to the main target.
    Greybriar Guardian Bard

  9. #9
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gromler View Post
    Buffing party initially with Knowledge or Power depending, Keeping your 5 motifs up
    Most important thing is keeping your buffs up. Have raid split for Knowledge/Power and keep Motifs up at all times.

    Changing between competence and Eiither Defiance, Fervor (if no mage), Glory, Vigor . Obviously this will be determined alot by encounter. Debuffing AoE pack with Distress and Cowardice.
    All raids should have an Archon, if your guild isn't using one they need to start. The Archon should be buffing Armor, Endurance and Resists and doing the debuffing. Fervor should be used whenever possible, only exception is fights where your run speed buff is needed, then run that and have a Chloro use Living Energy. Your AE debuffs can help alot on a few fights like Herald Gurath but most fights the Archon should be able to handle all debuffs.

    Keeping VoJ on Cooldown all the time or when called for... Spamming Cord and cadence to either Restoration / Fury for Aoe packs / Wrath single target
    Most fights i just use Joy on cooldown, you want to use it as many times as possible each fight to give healers mana, dont wait for it to be called. Power Cord sucks, only use it when you need combo points while moving. Spam Cadence and use Restoration/Fury, i mainly heal when i Bard with Cadence/Restoration, your low dps won't have much of an effect. While your healing with Cadence/Restoration combined with Joy really helps your healers alot.


    Using Captivation on mobs that it actually interupts there casting (Maybe having 15 point in BD for weapons barrage better?
    Use only when needed/asked to by raid leader. Wouldn't go 15bd, your main focus should be buffing/healing. Plenty of others can handle interupts.


    And last but deff not least using Virt with Rift to insta AoE debuff , Catch a Healer up on AoE heals or Fury Large low HP mobs for Crowd control.
    Yeah use as needed to help with Heals/dps and to ae debuff on the few fights they are needed.

    AS far as the base 51 point bard goes is this in line with what he should be doing?
    I use 5sab, 10 riftstalker for the %based bonses. 15%Dex, 15%AP, 15% End, gives me 1000+AP and 1000+Crit in T3 gear. 5 in Ranger is also good for the 5% crit. Anything %based seems to help out alot.


    *Verse of vitality even worth using the GCD for?*
    YES!!!! Use after the raid takes a big AE, helps get everyones health back up fast and saves your healers mana.

  10. #10
    oui
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    i think one of the most important things to remember about being a bard is, that while you do 'heal' in the passive sense that your cadence and motif of regeneration heal people - you're not a healer. i see a lot of bards complaining about needing more heals. we're a support class and the sooner people realize that bards are there for their buffs and motifs the better they'll like being a bard. yes, sometimes you'll top the healing charts but have you ever noticed your effective heals are lower than your healing done? we're not healers, we're just there for the buffs. keep on keepin' on!

  11. #11
    Qia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tofs View Post
    Maybe I'm crazy, blind, or just dumb, but I have never once seen Ranger + Riftstalker out perform Nightblade + Either. I see a lot of people saying how awesome it is to take both, because you get extra survivability from Riftstalker via more health and blink, but let's be honest; if you NEED either of those things (which no other rogues have access to in current top dps specs) to survive any fight, then you've got a whole lot of other problems.

    On the other hand, if there are bards who do find Ranger + RS to perform better than NB + Either, I'd love to see comparisons between parses and what not, because like I said, maybe I'm just crazy.
    NB: 21% on Cadence damage and 20 feet combo point generator.

    Ranger: 5% Crit, 46 Attack Power, Ranged attack procs, 2-6% damage mitigation, 30 feet Combo Point builder and Finisher, Cadence gets modified by your Ranged weapon-

    Riftstalker: 15% to your Attack Power, endurance buff, teleport, 2-6% damage mitigation.

    1) Cadence healing is "useless" healing. It is usually overhealing and is covered by Chloromancers and -icar clerics

    2) Bard in it's current form does not produce high healing (overshadowed by DoL), however if you try to do your best when damage is taken to the raid you will never say "oh, I better start casting cadence". You will want CoR. This is why I think RS and RNG is superior to NB. Because it increases the performance where it matters.
    Ip

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tofs View Post
    Maybe I'm crazy, blind, or just dumb, but I have never once seen Ranger + Riftstalker out perform Nightblade + Either. I see a lot of people saying how awesome it is to take both, because you get extra survivability from Riftstalker via more health and blink, but let's be honest; if you NEED either of those things (which no other rogues have access to in current top dps specs) to survive any fight, then you've got a whole lot of other problems.
    It is quite simple, in fights where cadence isn't overhealing, barddancer wins. In fights where it is, RS+Rgr win.

    As to why the buff bot may want to have more health and more maneuverability? There are plenty of fights where it makes a major difference. My main raiding spec sits on 9.3K HP. Its great for eating procs on damage shields without breaking a sweat, or when you are the AoE pinata. When it is your speed that is keep the raid up on grug. Port is useful for keeping in range on KP. etc. NB is meh. Also in most raids, you are another healer and relied on to heal. Your death = doubly bad.

    And RS+Rgr maximizes CoR healing. NB really doesn't do anything useful for bard.

  13. #13
    Telaran
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    Thank you for answering some of my Questions now just a simple one
    Source core for barding and the greater slots.
    Im currently using the Crystals vines and deep one tear (the one that shields for like 560 for 15 second) Would i be better of dropping in the 50 inscribed Coda essence(over deep one) or perhaps the Greater essence that drops from expert life rift? think is grasping faesource 740 heal over 8 seconds or should i try for the greater priomordial that falls from water rift?

    Thanks again for all the input even though sorting out if i should go NB or RS+Ranger wasnt made entirley clear without alot of opinions.

    Gromler

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    Telaran
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    Thanks for all the input anymore people input

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    Most of the info has been covered above.

    And while it is very important to keep our motifs up we do heal and there are a number of times on my rogue that I was the last healer standing and kept the rest of the raid up for the last 5-10% on a boss. So our healing is not to be dismissed.

    As for debuffing targets that is important when an archon is not in the group otherwise don't waste the cool down and hurt your archon. He gets bonuses to his class by having his stuff out there that is better then what you can debuff and makes him more effective.

    For me the best additional classes to add with bard are RS and marks. This buffs up all your healing including cadence. It also gives you swift shot and dead eye. So if your doing well on heals for your group you can put out far better dps with marks then you can with the ranger at least in my experience with the 1.5. Also in mobile fights you can build your AP with swift shot or quick shot and heal off that.

    For a sigil I set mine up with crystal vine and the level 42 ( I think it is ) that both proc off heals. I have a trinket that increase endurance from the expert water rift. All my lessers are +attack power I think there are 3 from the vendors and 3 from raid rifts that drop.

    With that setup and outlook I have and can reach up to 528 ehps.

    *ehps=effective heals per sec that is actual heals done not over healing.

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