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Thread: Help with DPS

  1. #1
    Rift Chaser Drathmar's Avatar
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    Default Help with DPS

    So, I am putting this up here as I want to get some help to pull some more DPS as rogue (sabdancer using keen + precision), as the numbers I am pulling seem kinda low

    Unbuffed I have

    722 AP
    988 Crit

    Weapons:
    Infiltrators Fury (34.0) mh
    Nimble Deathbring (31.7) oh

    I pull anywhere between 1500 and 1600 on murdantix, which seems kinda low.

    My rotation is usually 4xpike, keen strike, deadly strike, precision strike, spike, detonate. 5x shrap, detonate. Repeat.

    I pop blade tempo every time it's up, right before using deadly strike so the bonus hits deadly strike, precision strike, and both the spike set and shrap set of charges.

    Anyone have tips to increase this or just need better gear?
    Last edited by Drathmar; 09-20-2011 at 03:02 PM.

  2. #2
    Telaran
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    sounds about right to me.
    once you get the sword (44.5dps) off murdantix you'll gain another 150+dps

    last time i checked i was somehwere around 2k on murdantix (with mentioned sword+alsbeth relic dagger, 4set bonus p8 crystal, t4 gloves, t3 helmet, 1 HK ring)

  3. #3
    Telaran
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    First - what is your gear like? I'm sitting at soft cap for crit (~1200) and 720ish AP wearing 2 pieces of Durnes, 4x deathbringer gear, and the rest 10 man or t2 purps.

    I think using Precision Strike and Keen Strike vs. using Puncture is hosing you.

    You're losing DoT up-time by throwing in an extra cast of an ability that wouldn't be needed with puncture.

    I'm not at home right now so I can't run your rotation on a dummy, but is it possible that your Deadly Dance is not applying to your shrapnel charges because Precision Strike is eating it?

    Normally the rotation with puncture looks like this:

    3x spike -> Puncture -> Deadly Strike (3 charges of DD) -> 2x spike (converts DD to affect charges, instead of abilities) -> Detonate

    This leaves you with 1 charge of DD that has already swapped over from "affects abilities" to "affects next set of charges"

    5x shrapnel -> Detonate

    In your setup, It's possible that precision strike is eating the charge of DD that would normally affect Shrapnel Charge.

    IMO change your rotation and fix your crit and you will be happy.

    There's always the chance that I'm incredibly wrong about Precision eating the DD charge, in which case change your rotation and fix your crit and you will still be happy.

  4. #4
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by RasixTinypants View Post
    First - what is your gear like? I'm sitting at soft cap for crit (~1200) and 720ish AP wearing 2 pieces of Durnes, 4x deathbringer gear, and the rest 10 man or t2 purps.

    I think using Precision Strike and Keen Strike vs. using Puncture is hosing you.

    You're losing DoT up-time by throwing in an extra cast of an ability that wouldn't be needed with puncture.

    I'm not at home right now so I can't run your rotation on a dummy, but is it possible that your Deadly Dance is not applying to your shrapnel charges because Precision Strike is eating it?

    Normally the rotation with puncture looks like this:

    3x spike -> Puncture -> Deadly Strike (3 charges of DD) -> 2x spike (converts DD to affect charges, instead of abilities) -> Detonate

    This leaves you with 1 charge of DD that has already swapped over from "affects abilities" to "affects next set of charges"

    5x shrapnel -> Detonate

    In your setup, It's possible that precision strike is eating the charge of DD that would normally affect Shrapnel Charge.

    IMO change your rotation and fix your crit and you will be happy.

    There's always the chance that I'm incredibly wrong about Precision eating the DD charge, in which case change your rotation and fix your crit and you will still be happy.
    i dont think his precision strike is killing his deadly dance

    blablabla >keen > DS (3x dd) > precision (2x left) > spike (1x left) BOOM
    shrappnelx5 (0x left -> full boost shrap) BOOM

    and for your puncture thing... i'd personally use puncture AFTER DS so its boosted, but before i'd use puncture i'd rather use backstab (like: bs > 4x spike >deadly strike > bs > spike > boom and so on)

  5. #5
    Rift Chaser Drathmar's Avatar
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    Gear is pretty much t1 raid or crafted cept for my legs,

    no PvP gear.

    Listed weapons.

    Also I get the full deadly dance bonus on both sets of charges and precision strike, keen strike is before deadly dance.
    Last edited by Drathmar; 09-20-2011 at 04:05 PM.

  6. #6
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragedo View Post
    i dont think his precision strike is killing his deadly dance

    blablabla >keen > DS (3x dd) > precision (2x left) > spike (1x left) BOOM
    shrappnelx5 (0x left -> full boost shrap) BOOM

    and for your puncture thing... i'd personally use puncture AFTER DS so its boosted, but before i'd use puncture i'd rather use backstab (like: bs > 4x spike >deadly strike > bs > spike > boom and so on)
    If you use puncture after DD, you're wasting a CP/charge.

    puncture after DD would have to look like this

    5x spike -> DS-> Puncture -> 1x Spike -> Det. so you're wasting a charge/cp/energy.

    The only other way to do it and NOT waste a charge is 4x spike, then DS, in which case you're only gaining 84% damage, not 105%.

    So at that point it becomes weighing the 2 evils, puncture without DD benifit, or casting 1 extra 26 energy ability per round.

  7. #7
    RIFT Guide Writer Zyzyx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RasixTinypants View Post
    If you use puncture after DD, you're wasting a CP/charge.

    puncture after DD would have to look like this

    5x spike -> DS-> Puncture -> 1x Spike -> Det. so you're wasting a charge/cp/energy.

    The only other way to do it and NOT waste a charge is 4x spike, then DS, in which case you're only gaining 84% damage, not 105%.

    So at that point it becomes weighing the 2 evils, puncture without DD benifit, or casting 1 extra 26 energy ability per round.
    or you can do 4spike keen ds puncture 1 spike det

    so you do top dps and all

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

  8. #8
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    You're still adding an unnecessary gcd to your rotation and losing out on spike uptime.

    puncture > 3x spike > deadly > 2x spike > detonate
    5x shrapnel > detonate

    Total 14 seconds, duration on spike is 15s. This gives you a bit of breathing room due to latency and energy regen.

    As far as your dps, I'd say that 1500-1600 with 34/31.7 dps weapons is a bit low. I do a bit more than that and you have slightly better weapons/gear than I do. Try the rotation change and see if it helps. Remember you can move the puncture around depending on fight mechanics (punct > 3x spike or 3x spike > punc, and so on) to not waste time running to the boss without using something.
    Skiet - Kelari Rogue - Fires of Heaven - Deepwood

    Thanks a lot, Daglar.

  9. #9
    Rift Chaser Drathmar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caelan View Post
    You're still adding an unnecessary gcd to your rotation and losing out on spike uptime.

    puncture > 3x spike > deadly > 2x spike > detonate
    5x shrapnel > detonate

    Total 14 seconds, duration on spike is 15s. This gives you a bit of breathing room due to latency and energy regen.

    As far as your dps, I'd say that 1500-1600 with 34/31.7 dps weapons is a bit low. I do a bit more than that and you have slightly better weapons/gear than I do. Try the rotation change and see if it helps. Remember you can move the puncture around depending on fight mechanics (punct > 3x spike or 3x spike > punc, and so on) to not waste time running to the boss without using something.
    I always read you lose DD damage on 1 ability doing it that way were as the other you get the damage on precision strike from DD and still get it on all charges, instead of getting it on both sets of charges but not on anything else.

    Thought that was the whole point of moving into the 2xBS or Keen and Precision rotation.
    Last edited by Drathmar; 09-20-2011 at 05:32 PM.

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    Rift Chaser Drathmar's Avatar
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    Also what buffs should rogues have from items, I know wetstones are bugged, but we should have the 40str/40dex pot, cupcakes, and tablets right?

  11. #11
    RIFT Guide Writer Zyzyx's Avatar
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    Don't forget to poison coat your ranged weapon(it helps shraps)

    also anyone who uses puncture before DS wastes a DD charge and is a derp

    I could see using backstab instead ,but im lazy and dont care to position.
    Last edited by Zyzyx; 09-20-2011 at 05:51 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

  12. #12
    Rift Chaser Drathmar's Avatar
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    ya I forgot to mention 1500-1600 is without any of those buffs as ive been lazy. Not sure how big a difference that makes.

    Also it helps shraps even though shraps work off your mh weapon (tested this, they did same dmg without ranged weapon on, half damage or less without mh on).

    Also, I havent switched out for an AP sigil yet, so there is that as well.
    Last edited by Drathmar; 09-20-2011 at 05:56 PM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zyzyx View Post
    Don't forget to poison coat your ranged weapon(it helps shraps)

    also anyone who uses puncture before DS wastes a DD charge and is a derp

    I could see using backstab instead ,but im lazy and dont care to position.
    Using keen/precision adds an extra gcd and not enough extra damage to make up for the loss of uptime on Spike Charge, as noted more times than I can count in dozens of threads on this forum. There has never been a definitive parse proving that it is better.

    The double backstab, however, has a higher top end, but suffers from positioning issues, as you noted.
    Skiet - Kelari Rogue - Fires of Heaven - Deepwood

    Thanks a lot, Daglar.

  14. #14
    Rift Chaser Drathmar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zyzyx View Post
    Don't forget to poison coat your ranged weapon(it helps shraps)

    also anyone who uses puncture before DS wastes a DD charge and is a derp

    I could see using backstab instead ,but im lazy and dont care to position.
    Is the item name poison coating (no one in my guild uses it, I thought poison was defiant only).

  15. #15
    RIFT Guide Writer Zyzyx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drathmar View Post
    Is the item name poison coating (no one in my guild uses it, I thought poison was defiant only).
    Poisonous coating


    weaponcrafters make it with bloodshade iirc

    EDIT: Heres a definitive post. Keen > ds > puncure is better. (bout a 50 dps gain)
    Last edited by Zyzyx; 09-20-2011 at 06:27 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

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