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Thread: Please 'Fix' rogues before 1.5 goes live...

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
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    Default Please 'Fix' rogues before 1.5 goes live...

    Im not one to usually post and QQ about upcoming changes and what not, but after playing arround on the PTS i feel let down and rather dismayed by the current rogue changes on the PTS.

    - Competitive PvE Alternatives to Sabodancer, both melee and ranged.
    - Competitive PvP DPS. You should fear seeing a Rogue the same way you see a Warrior. Of equal Prestige Rank, the two should be capable of providing a similar amount of PvP threat.
    Taken directly from the patch notes......

    #1 complete fail on the devlopers here IMO. Sabodancer or some combination of Blade dancer is STILL THE BEST OVER ALL single target DPS spec in pve. Ranger got a little better but it still is behind on the dps train compaired to sany blade dancer spec. MM got some love but we totally lost our 'burst' dps and now are all scratching our heads saying 'WTF" - while DPS of 51MM is up when compaired to live- again its no where near comparable to any melee spec.

    FFS- we want a DPS spec that can compete with any spec that uses 'dancer' in it. I have an awesome ranged weapon and want to DO RANGED DPS- no get ridiculed b/c i dont want to play a melee rogue.

    #2 51MM was a fun PVP soul- with Hit and Run - PEOPLE DID FEAR us- i could out dps just about any healing on the target and its what made 51mm a viable PVP spec for sniping and picking off people- With the new changes to MM anyone that sees a MM in pvp is gona /lol as we TRY and kill them or just out heal our dmg. vampiric munitions is nice and all, but does not make up for the latck of bursty dps that we used to have. the loss of Hit and run also makes 51 MM a sorry choice for dps in PVE and raids- again it stil cannot come close to the single target dps that the Melee specs are running, if i wanted to F***NG melee i would have rolled a war.

    /rant

    Ideas for changes -
    -Put back in the old Hit and run - this will + dps in BOTH pve and PVP
    -Remove the 20% healing from vampiric munitions- 50% healing reduction + 20% healed =OPed
    - have electrified munitions deal either weapons dmg or increase its current dmg by 20-30% (not what it was originally though)
    -increase all ranger dmg abilities by about 20% or so
    - either normalize the Armor reduction on Piercing shot/lighting fury or change them- they currnetly override each other or change lightning fury all together - whats the point of getting 2 armor debuffs if they dont work together or are all together overridden by other debuffs.

    and lastly - either lower DPS on rank 8 weapons or
    RAISE DMG ON THE LEGENDARY WEAPONS !!!!!!!! -

    WTF is the point of raiding when i can just PVP and get far superior weapons and DPS from my PVP gear??????
    Last edited by Malkara; 09-20-2011 at 06:47 AM.
    Malkara Officer of Vendetta - Deepstrike Server - Defiant
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  2. #2
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malkara View Post

    and lastly - either lower DPS on rank 8 weapons or
    RAISE DMG ON THE LEGENDARY WEAPONS !!!!!!!! -

    WT????F is the point of raiding when i can just PVP and get far superior weapons and DPS from my PVP gear??
    Then why don't you? HK weapons are still superior to R8 Weapons, have you even seen their stats?

    Don't ruin it for everyone else. Please. Stop. Your post wreaks of frustration from something that happened in-game, and I'm sorry.
    Last edited by kdps; 09-20-2011 at 06:54 AM.
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  3. #3
    RIFT Guide Writer Zyzyx's Avatar
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    theres nothing op about vampiric munitions quit spreading this rumor around

    cleric heals self for 1000 / 2 = 500(heals they recieve) /5 = 100 (heals I recieve)

    It's math.

    Also, EM is fine.
    Last edited by Zyzyx; 09-20-2011 at 06:59 AM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

  4. #4
    Rift Chaser Drathmar's Avatar
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    I have a PvP build (can only test in duels unfortunately) that has beaten everything but a very well played high assassin rogue, and some clerics, over about 20 duels. Melee spec, which has gotten a buff in PvP.

    Also, due to being able to stay at ranged, ranged should always do slightly less damage than melee, they are in less danger.

  5. #5
    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
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    OP is uninformed, leave this thread at 1 star and let it die.

    sorry if any devs have to read this thread, the OP is really off base so do not take his word for anything but a rant. removing hit n run is an overall good thing, they need to tweak mm dmg to compensate but once they do it will be a dps gain in pve while still being useful in pvp (without being OP every 1.5m). was silly that i could kill 2 sometimes 3 ppl every time i clicked hit n run, how is that fair?

    also the highest parsing spec on pts right now is assassin, riftstalker, marksman.. oh wait, that doesnt have saboteur OR bladedancer in it... hum...
    Useful Rogue guides since I don't want to answer 50 billion questions anymore:
    Marksman, Ranger, Nightblade, Blink'Blade, Asstalker, Assdancer, and finally The Hoko Spec™
    Hoko, teaching noobs the way of rogue pve until 12/20/11.

  6. #6
    Rift Chaser Drathmar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hokonoso View Post
    OP is uninformed, leave this thread at 1 star and let it die.

    sorry if any devs have to read this thread, the OP is really off base so do not take his word for anything but a rant. removing hit n run is an overall good thing, they need to tweak mm dmg to compensate but once they do it will be a dps gain in pve while still being useful in pvp (without being OP every 1.5m). was silly that i could kill 2 sometimes 3 ppl every time i clicked hit n run, how is that fair?

    also the highest parsing spec on pts right now is assassin, riftstalker, marksman.. oh wait, that doesnt have saboteur OR bladedancer in it... hum...
    the 10mm version is meh in a real world situation though cause of shortened duration on Impale. I wish we could get the old talent back for that

  7. #7
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Dunharrow's Avatar
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    Other specs are competitive with sabdancer, because sabdancer was hella nerfed. Problem solved.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hokonoso View Post
    also the highest parsing spec on pts right now is assassin, riftstalker, marksman.. oh wait, that doesnt have saboteur OR bladedancer in it... hum...
    hurp? How deep in Assassin?
    Last edited by Dunharrow; 09-20-2011 at 07:41 AM.

  8. #8
    Rift Chaser Drathmar's Avatar
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    Man dun you really need to catch up.

    Its 20 Rs/10mm/36 Sin

    You have to keep impale up and get 2 FB's per Impale for it to out parse the 20RS/19BD/27Sin though I believe.
    Last edited by Drathmar; 09-20-2011 at 07:45 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunharrow View Post
    Other specs are competitive with sabdancer, because sabdancer was hella nerfed. Problem solved.




    hurp? How deep in Assassin?
    Yes making a sabo whole mission in life, agro transfer. thats fun.

  10. #10
    Ascendant Nadili's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hokonoso View Post
    OP is uninformed, leave this thread at 1 star and let it die.

    sorry if any devs have to read this thread, the OP is really off base so do not take his word for anything but a rant. removing hit n run is an overall good thing, they need to tweak mm dmg to compensate but once they do it will be a dps gain in pve while still being useful in pvp (without being OP every 1.5m). was silly that i could kill 2 sometimes 3 ppl every time i clicked hit n run, how is that fair?

    also the highest parsing spec on pts right now is assassin, riftstalker, marksman.. oh wait, that doesnt have saboteur OR bladedancer in it... hum...
    I agree about H&R deadeye and empowered need a rework a cd would work with insta cast. I find it odd that swift shot has never gotten any love higher in the MM tree yes the runspeed is nice but something that added to it's crit or damage would be nice same could be said for barbed shot.

    When you called me delusional I laughed so hard I almost fell off my unicorn!!

  11. #11
    Rift Chaser Drathmar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horcrux View Post
    Yes making a sabo whole mission in life, agro transfer. thats fun.
    I did this to my guild leader in a 10 man I think it was, or a t2, can't remember.

    We are standing there (he was testing a new spec) all of a sudden a huge group just runs at him he's like "OMG I Didn't even do anything".

    Was funny. What sucks is not able to do this when we farm GSB/RoS as our tanks are too good, I've tried to incrim detonate stacked charges right before tank pulls onto someone but it never works...

  12. #12
    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drathmar View Post
    the 10mm version is meh in a real world situation though cause of shortened duration on Impale. I wish we could get the old talent back for that
    yea it wont work in a real situation with a boss, so ill be doing the shadowdancer version (if i ever melee again :P)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dunharrow View Post
    Other specs are competitive with sabdancer, because sabdancer was hella nerfed. Problem solved.




    hurp? How deep in Assassin?
    Quote Originally Posted by Drathmar View Post
    Man dun you really need to catch up.

    Its 20 Rs/10mm/36 Sin

    You have to keep impale up and get 2 FB's per Impale for it to out parse the 20RS/19BD/27Sin though I believe.
    basically it's 32sin/20rs/10mm with 4 points left over, it's too hard to test the armor pen gain outside a raid situation so most are going 36sin for the current parses but the rotation is super lame, impale needs a double pve duration before it would become useful in a real setting (like before).

    basically we are reverting to the days when the only specs were hoko spec and sabodancer, because even back then the 32sin spec was more dps, just the rotation was so hard it was impossible to keep it up in a real life situation and it always got beat by the 1 button hoko mash and most crit stacking sabodancers. sin bleeds are still insane dps, just too hard to keep up in pve, but they are high enough to be amazing in pvp! but me personally will stick with spell dmg since 38nb/16mm/12inf is still insane.
    Useful Rogue guides since I don't want to answer 50 billion questions anymore:
    Marksman, Ranger, Nightblade, Blink'Blade, Asstalker, Assdancer, and finally The Hoko Spec™
    Hoko, teaching noobs the way of rogue pve until 12/20/11.

  13. #13
    Rift Chaser Drathmar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hokonoso View Post
    yea it wont work in a real situation with a boss, so ill be doing the shadowdancer version (if i ever melee again :P)





    basically it's 32sin/20rs/10mm with 4 points left over, it's too hard to test the armor pen gain outside a raid situation so most are going 36sin for the current parses but the rotation is super lame, impale needs a double pve duration before it would become useful in a real setting (like before).

    basically we are reverting to the days when the only specs were hoko spec and sabodancer, because even back then the 32sin spec was more dps, just the rotation was so hard it was impossible to keep it up in a real life situation and it always got beat by the 1 button hoko mash and most crit stacking sabodancers. sin bleeds are still insane dps, just too hard to keep up in pve, but they are high enough to be amazing in pvp! but me personally will stick with spell dmg since 38nb/16mm/12inf is still insane.
    38nb/28Rs has been working really well for me in duels on PTS (since WF's aren't working). Beat even the build you are using pretty handily. Only one that beat me was a 34Ass/32RS in a white robe.

  14. #14
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hokonoso View Post
    OP is uninformed, leave this thread at 1 star and let it die.

    sorry if any devs have to read this thread, the OP is really off base so do not take his word for anything but a rant. removing hit n run is an overall good thing, they need to tweak mm dmg to compensate but once they do it will be a dps gain in pve while still being useful in pvp (without being OP every 1.5m). was silly that i could kill 2 sometimes 3 ppl every time i clicked hit n run, how is that fair?

    also the highest parsing spec on pts right now is assassin, riftstalker, marksman.. oh wait, that doesnt have saboteur OR bladedancer in it... hum...
    i may be 'uninformed' or whatever u want to say, what i do know is it clearly states they were going to add viable alternative for ranged dps that were comparable to sabodancer dps - the fact is they DID NOT do this with the current pts changes - while yes they did increase ranged dps it still cannot touch the dps output of the melee specs-

    as i said - if i wanted to melee i would have played a warrior...
    Malkara Officer of Vendetta - Deepstrike Server - Defiant
    http://www.guildvendetta.com

  15. #15
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    So is this melee build out parsing the new Ranged builds that arent energy starved?
    Last edited by Vindicit; 09-20-2011 at 08:08 AM.

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