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Thread: Please Change Residual Shrapnel Back to the Way it Was!

  1. #1
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Default Please Change Residual Shrapnel Back to the Way it Was!

    Rogues were hit hard with this last patch... very hard. Harder then most players know because they haven't seen all the content and they don't realize the potential repercussions of the change.

    Residual Shrapnel in the Saboteur soul has been changed from:

    Your Shrapnel Charge deals an additional 50% damage over 6 seconds

    to

    Your Shrapnel and Blast charge deals an additional 20% damage over 6 seconds

    So you may ask yourself, why should I care? Despite the QQ posts about saboteur on the forums (which I largely ignored because noobs will be noobs) it is the rogue aoe soul. In case not all of you have noticed, there is a ton of aoe encounters in HK. Everyone seems obsessed with single target dps (of which there are 2 of 11 encounters in HK) and forget that you spec for the encounter.

    Currently here is a ranking of strength of aoe amongst the classes:

    Mages = Clerics > Rogues > Warriors

    We will be taking a hit. Now I don't want to be alarmist and say 'OMG, we will have the worst aoe dps out of all callings' because I don't know if it's true - but I do know we aren't much ahead of warriors despite what most people think, and we are not higher aoe dps then mages and clerics if they spec for it. With this nerf we might fall behind all the other classes.

    The change to blast charge isn't great either - it's about a 20 dps boost single target using blast over shrapnel - so still largely useless. There is no upside to this for rogues. From a design point of view I can see wanting a charge that's supposed to be our best single target dps to be higher then an aoe charge, but in the larger scheme of how rogues fit into group dynamics this is a huge loss for all rogues.

    This is also coming from someone who plays 44 sab in pvp and pve, and sabdancer in pve. I don't just occassionally play sab - it was my preferred soul, so you can consider me an 'expert' in playing sab.
    Last edited by Mayi; 09-18-2011 at 05:05 AM.

  2. #2
    Soulwalker
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    never felt any need to ever post anything here, but I agree 100% with the above poster. Shrapenals is the only AOE thats not a complete joke in the whole rogue class.

    please dont do this.

  3. #3
    Ascendant charliekelly's Avatar
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    was a stupid change. 1.5 will almost certainly be a complete failure for rogue pve dps and tanking. rogue buff. LOL.

  4. #4
    RIFT Guide Writer Zyzyx's Avatar
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    signe d

    Charlie I never thought i'd do this ,but im going to have to disagree with you there. Currently the rogue tanking changes are a good baby step in the right direction.

    MAYI IS A SAB EXPERT LISTEN TO HIM!
    EDIT: A sabspert if you will.
    Last edited by Zyzyx; 09-18-2011 at 01:50 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

  5. #5
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    Yes please change it back to the way it was. Rogues have jack sh!t for AoE thats worth a dam. Buffing bombs is a waste of time cause most of which cant even be macro'd which wastes time.

  6. #6
    Official Rift Founding Fan Site Operator Draegan's Avatar
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    Trickshot is going to get pretty damn close.


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  7. #7
    Plane Touched Malkieri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draegan View Post
    Trickshot is going to get pretty damn close.
    Numbers?

    How close?

  8. #8
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draegan View Post
    Trickshot is going to get pretty damn close.
    For trickshot you need to be ranged. Looking through all our trees, we don't have many aoes really and only 4 that bulid combo points:

    Shrapnel charge - what people use now in sabdancer
    Trick shot - decent, self buffed hits for 500 and with Hoko hits for 1k with DS buff. Requires range
    Fiery chains - decent, actually nerfed a bit with enkindle change
    Dual strike - crap

    Others:

    Weapon flare - haven't used this in so long I don't know too much about it. Used to proc serrated blades in aoe, but that got changed right? Pretty damn weak.
    Sab bombs - self explanatory
    Crossfire and Lightning fury - junk

    So for encounters where you need aoe what will you play? There's only one choice right now - sab! - and it's getting nerfed. Maybe this 1.5 buff is a 'buff' to single target dps but they're reducing rogue aoe to compensate? Besides shrapnel charge, we're behind warriors in aoe and it's getting changed. Bad change is bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyzyx View Post
    signe d

    Charlie I never thought i'd do this ,but im going to have to disagree with you there. Currently the rogue tanking changes are a good baby step in the right direction.

    MAYI IS A SAB EXPERT LISTEN TO HIM!
    EDIT: A sabspert if you will.
    Yup yea... I am an expert on sab builds if you will /flex. I designed sabdancer - that good... well initial concept, then Kythik tweaked and improved it.
    Last edited by Mayi; 09-18-2011 at 02:46 PM.

  9. #9
    Official Rift Founding Fan Site Operator Draegan's Avatar
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    Hit near 1000 with 16 Ranger, 50 MM. Might be improved with some Assassin tossed in there. Not only does this spec allow for probably the best AOE, it also provides solid ST dps.

    Now, the question is, does the 51 pt NB talent really scale well?
    Last edited by Draegan; 09-18-2011 at 06:49 PM.


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  10. #10
    RIFT Guide Writer Zyzyx's Avatar
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    Arrow

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayi View Post
    For trickshot you need to be ranged. Looking through all our trees, we don't have many aoes really and only 4 that bulid combo points:

    Shrapnel charge - what people use now in sabdancer
    Trick shot - decent, self buffed hits for 500 and with Hoko hits for 1k with DS buff. Requires range
    Fiery chains - decent, actually nerfed a bit with enkindle change
    Dual strike - crap

    Others:

    Weapon flare - haven't used this in so long I don't know too much about it. Used to proc serrated blades in aoe, but that got changed right? Pretty damn weak.
    Sab bombs - self explanatory
    Crossfire and Lightning fury - junk

    So for encounters where you need aoe what will you play? There's only one choice right now - sab! - and it's getting nerfed. Maybe this 1.5 buff is a 'buff' to single target dps but they're reducing rogue aoe to compensate? Besides shrapnel charge, we're behind warriors in aoe and it's getting changed. Bad change is bad.



    Yup yea... I am an expert on sab builds if you will /flex. I designed sabdancer - that good... well initial concept, then Kythik tweaked and improved it.
    I dont think fiery chains builds cps

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

  11. #11
    Plane Touched Akizuki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zyzyx View Post
    I dont think fiery chains builds cps
    It doesn't.

    32pts root ability, 6s CD, only hit 4 targets, doesn't build cps... Yep, crap.

  12. #12
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Shows how much I play nightblade.

    Melee builds will be spamming weapon flare for aoe at best. Ranger while okish is still worse dps then sab - try some aoe encounters playing ranger and you'll see what i mean. They should definitely change residual shrapnel back.

  13. #13
    Official Rift Founding Fan Site Operator Draegan's Avatar
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    Ranger has always been 2nd best AOE Dps.


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  14. #14
    Rift Disciple
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    I, too, would like it back. I'd love to keep blast viable, but not at the cost of losing shrap.

  15. #15
    Plane Walker Radamanthys's Avatar
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    Rain of Arrows is not a good AoE attack?
    It doesnt build any CP but have no limit on targets.

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