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Thread: 51 BD really really sucks :(

  1. #1
    Champion of Telara Puandro's Avatar
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    Default 51 BD really really sucks :(

    Worse then the last PTS patch. could almost reach 1,100 but SabDancer is doing 1,600 and Blink Spec is doing 1,650.

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    Yeah, the contratempo cake is a contratempo lie. I was stunned when I parsed a few different options how poorly 51 blade performed. Too many lost points in the soul for PvE still I guess.

    I really dig the riftstalker hybrid though. That is fun, even at the dummy.

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    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
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    the 51pt bd talent sux, it should be a passive talent that literally doubles the dmg of all BD abilities... anything short of that and BD 51pt will never be viable, losing 17sin is just too much of a dps loss raid buffed right now.
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    I'm not even sure the high crit works right. I should have 95% crit chance with Blade and Soul Parity, and routinely see 3-4 abilities/attacks in a row with no crit (I'm excluding no-crit stuff like serrated blades/poisons). It's 1:10000 chance things are routine.

    I plan on really testing this to be sure there's not somthing f'ed about high crit chance.
    Last edited by Kurieg; 09-17-2011 at 07:28 AM.

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    I tried 51 out myself, just eyeballing it for now, and there didn't seem to be a noticable differents between Quick/Precision in 40 and 51. Perhaps the loss of Magnify Pain is just too great?

    Blade and Soul Parity needs a bit of a buff. It's nowhere near as strong as Dualism and, as a result, 40 is just the more effective spec. Also the crit rate does not work as advertised, I should have had about a 90% crit rate but would often get several 'normal' hits off abilities in a row. Murphy's Law and all that, I know, but I think it's not going beyond the crit cap as it should.

    I'd like to see some sort of GCD reduction at 51 Bladedancer. The lore and flavour text makes a huge deal of how supernaturally fast and agile they are, but it's not really reflected in the gameplay. Perhaps a passive at 51 that reduces GCD to something like 0.85 seconds or remove the crit from BaSP and have it reduce GCD significantly while active (now that would be a worthy 51pt cooldown, heh).
    Last edited by Kedon; 09-17-2011 at 07:39 AM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurieg View Post
    I'm not even sure the high crit works right. I should have 95% crit chance with Blade and Soul Parity, and routinely see 3-4 abilities/attacks in a row with no crit (I'm excluding no-crit stuff like serrated blades/poisons). It's 1:10000 chance things are routine.

    I plan on really testing this to be sure there's not somthing f'ed about high crit chance.
    I have definitely thought that things with high crit chance might be bugged, even on live. I have ~50% chance to crit in my PvP gear as Assassin, with talents Jagged, Impale, etc etc should have something like a 98% chance to crit.

    I know that Cleric has a -15% chance to get crit in PvP soul, etc etc, but it is fairly common for me to see 4-5 ticks in a row not crit. That doesn't seem likely unless I'm misunderstanding a mechanic somewhere...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Puandro View Post
    Worse then the last PTS patch. could almost reach 1,100 but SabDancer is doing 1,600 and Blink Spec is doing 1,650.
    sounds like you have really low AP. The high BD spec rely on/maximize AP bonus. Basically over half your attacks are getting 400+% AP contribution (quick, precision, deadly). Then add in the 100% damage increase from DD and the effective AP contribution is on the order of 900% for quick and precision.

    In contrast, Sab scales horribly with AP so it matters a lot less.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hokonoso View Post
    the 51pt bd talent sux, it should be a passive talent that literally doubles the dmg of all BD abilities... anything short of that and BD 51pt will never be viable, losing 17sin is just too much of a dps loss raid buffed right now.
    I'm not convinced.

    Sin gives you 2 meh poisions, 5% crit, 10% damage, and 20% on crit. To get it you are giving up either 35% AP or 10% AP and 5% damage AND 132% AP contribution to quick/precision. So I'm not sure it is so clear cut.

    But I agree that 51pt ability in BD is pretty meh. It was the one that I almost always ended up clipping because it provides the lowest DPS increase in my experience vs the 3 other DPS rhythmic abilities. They should probably add a 30-50% crit damage increase to it and actually make the crit increase work.

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    Champion of Telara Puandro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durango View Post
    sounds like you have really low AP. The high BD spec rely on/maximize AP bonus. Basically over half your attacks are getting 400+% AP contribution (quick, precision, deadly). Then add in the 100% damage increase from DD and the effective AP contribution is on the order of 900% for quick and precision.

    In contrast, Sab scales horribly with AP so it matters a lot less.
    Im stacking AP on live. but still no matter that isn't going to gap the 500 damage diff.

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    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durango View Post
    I'm not convinced.

    Sin gives you 2 meh poisions, 5% crit, 10% damage, and 20% on crit. To get it you are giving up either 35% AP or 10% AP and 5% damage AND 132% AP contribution to quick/precision. So I'm not sure it is so clear cut.

    But I agree that 51pt ability in BD is pretty meh. It was the one that I almost always ended up clipping because it provides the lowest DPS increase in my experience vs the 3 other DPS rhythmic abilities. They should probably add a 30-50% crit damage increase to it and actually make the crit increase work.
    lol you could hug the right side of sin and pick up the useless talents that dont give u the crit, 4% dmg bonus and 10% dmg bonus and still do more dps than the 51bd build simply because you took magnify pain.

    what im saying is, that talent by itself is better than the 11 wasted points in bd. raid buffs give you 15% crit chance, having those free crits hit for 20% harder is HUGE! no amount of AP or bonus dmg will make up for it, ive done countless tests and my max hit is always higher if i have magnify pain than in any 51pt spec that isnt sin.
    Last edited by Hokonoso; 09-17-2011 at 10:38 AM.
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    Ascendant Zaros's Avatar
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    Are you cereal? I parsed at 2.7k with 51/7/8 BD MM RS. Quick strike crits for over 2k. There's no way in hell this patch will go live.
    ~Quiescent

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    Ascendant MoonfireSpam's Avatar
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    I seem to recall something about there being a crit hard cap back when they introduced the softcap in 1.4

    Might be why you're not seeing strings of crits with it up... though afaik the hard cap was only a stat limitation and shouldn't be applied to non-stat buffs and talents.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Durango View Post
    sounds like you have really low AP. The high BD spec rely on/maximize AP bonus. Basically over half your attacks are getting 400+% AP contribution (quick, precision, deadly). Then add in the 100% damage increase from DD and the effective AP contribution is on the order of 900% for quick and precision.

    In contrast, Sab scales horribly with AP so it matters a lot less.
    dude, show me a parser screenshot. i still dont believe your rumored 2.5k dps

    i cant get beyond 1.5kdps with 1500ish ap (sometimes higher)

  14. #14
    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragedo View Post
    dude, show me a parser screenshot. i still dont believe your rumored 2.5k dps

    i cant get beyond 1.5kdps with 1500ish ap (sometimes higher)
    cause it's only that high during the cooldown then it's 1100 the rest of the time.
    Useful Rogue guides since I don't want to answer 50 billion questions anymore:
    Marksman, Ranger, Nightblade, Blink'Blade, Asstalker, Assdancer, and finally The Hoko Spec™
    Hoko, teaching noobs the way of rogue pve until 12/20/11.

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    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hokonoso View Post
    what im saying is, that talent by itself is better than the 11 wasted points in bd. raid buffs give you 15% crit chance, having those free crits hit for 20% harder is HUGE! no amount of AP or bonus dmg will make up for it, ive done countless tests and my max hit is always higher if i have magnify pain than in any 51pt spec that isnt sin.
    Wow, someone else who actually tests their ****. Every 51 point spec except riftstalker and bard should have 15 sin paired with it.

    Plus yes... bladedancer sucks. I haven't tested any 40 builds, but 51 BD sucks.

    I'll have to test BD paired with mm and rs, it might be the exception but I doubt it.
    Last edited by Mayi; 09-17-2011 at 09:42 PM.

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