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Thread: 2 Rogues vs. 1 Cleric = fail?

  1. #1
    Rift Master blackweb's Avatar
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    Default 2 Rogues vs. 1 Cleric = fail?

    I play 4 50 toons, one of each calling. One of them, my favorite is a Rogue. I play Ranger/Marks/Sab and Assasin/Bladedancer on my rogue in pvp. I do ok in pvp, I am nearly rank 3 and I would describe my skill as 2 or 3 ranks above my pvp rank. I am pretty good but I can always get better.

    Myself and another rogue in the guild were doing pvp daylies and we kept encountering solo clerics or groups of clerics. Myself and my partner repeatedly tried to kill decently geared clerics 2v1 as assasins just to see if we could do it. We failed miserably. I do not expect to be able to down a geared cleric solo as an R2 rogue, that would be silly. However, 2 rogues should have a chance to kill at least one cleric. No, we had no chance. If the cleric had decent gear, their health hardly dropped at all. We gave up on attacking clerics because we just didnt have the damage or utility (healing debuff) to get the job done.

    Dont tell me that rogues dont need a serious buff. Our pvp damage as assasin is pathetic. We have little or no way to counter healers. We can barely slow a target. The QQ about the 1.5 rogue buff has already begun. I for one am tired of being an easy kill in pvp as a rogue. I am tired of having zero counter to healers as an assasin rogue. I am tired of fighting classes who can heal themselves while I have little or no self healing. I am tired of waiting for the 2 min CD for slip away.

    Yes, rogues need a serious buff. No, you arent going to like it if you are the target of buffed up rogues. What it comes down to is this, if you arent at least a little bit afraid of rogues in pvp, then rogues are completely useless in pvp.

  2. #2
    Ascendant Gunzip's Avatar
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    You're not supposed to have an upper hand and be able to kill a blue bar that is P6+

    Get to P6 with the weapons and you'll see that said blue bar will actually die to your assassin stealth build. All classes in game are like this, they underperform until they're properly geared, it's not so much a rogue issue, you just lack the gear.

  3. #3
    Rift Master blackweb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunzip View Post
    You're not supposed to have an upper hand and be able to kill a blue bar that is P6+

    Get to P6 with the weapons and you'll see that said blue bar will actually die to your assassin stealth build. All classes in game are like this, they underperform until they're properly geared, it's not so much a rogue issue, you just lack the gear.
    Sorry, not buying what you are selling. For 1v1 I agree with you. For 2v1, the rogues should at least have a chance, assuming the cleric doesnt have really good gear, ie. R6+. Even then, 2 rogues should at least be a threat and do more than annoy the cleric.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackweb View Post
    Sorry, not buying what you are selling. For 1v1 I agree with you. For 2v1, the rogues should at least have a chance, assuming the cleric doesnt have really good gear, ie. R6+. Even then, 2 rogues should at least be a threat and do more than annoy the cleric.
    I agree with this. If 2 Rogues can't out-damage a Cleric healing just because that Cleric has better equipment, then the pvp problem is even more worse. It's either too gear-dependent or Cleric is too hard to kill without any decent -healing debuff. Or both.

    I know my Ranger has a hard time even hurting 50% of a cleric's health. I can spam all my arrows and still won't hurt him. I am only lvl 26 though. I basically just doesn't even bother hitting a cleric.

  5. #5
    Prophet of Telara
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    Clerics are ridiculous to try and kill without heal debuffs, silences, proper use of stuns, etc etc. This isn't just a low rank thing, this applies to P6-P8 Rogues just as much. That is why it is so common to see 4-5 people beating on them and their life going UP. To date, Rogues have had to make extreme sacrifices to gain the utility necessary for such a situation.

    Fortunately, Trion seems to be making some good moves to address these types of issues. Heal debuffs will be easier to get, damage has been upped a bit, and now we have some measure of healing so that we won't get killed by pitiful DoT's and Waterjet just because the Cleric can keep himself alive indefinitely.

    The only advice I have is to keep gearing up and wait for the next patch.

  6. #6
    Rift Chaser
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    do you now understand the changes that are coming in 1.5? stop complaining and wait for the buffs

  7. #7
    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
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    funny, cause my R2 warrior has no problem killing full healing clerics. they do little to no dps and if they sacrificing healing to dps me they die even faster, it's really pathetic lol.

    now cabalists destroy warriors so fast it isnt even funny.
    Useful Rogue guides since I don't want to answer 50 billion questions anymore:
    Marksman, Ranger, Nightblade, Blink'Blade, Asstalker, Assdancer, and finally The Hoko Spec™
    Hoko, teaching noobs the way of rogue pve until 12/20/11.

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    Ascendant Gunzip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackweb View Post
    Sorry, not buying what you are selling. For 1v1 I agree with you. For 2v1, the rogues should at least have a chance, assuming the cleric doesnt have really good gear, ie. R6+. Even then, 2 rogues should at least be a threat and do more than annoy the cleric.
    Did you apply a healing debuff to the healing Cleric?
    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    I believe Assassin DoTs are uncleansable.

    It's still a terrible PvP spec compared to Marksman, though.

  9. #9
    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunzip View Post
    Did you apply a healing debuff to the healing Cleric?
    ofc not, they were both playing a noob assassin spec with no heal debuff.
    Useful Rogue guides since I don't want to answer 50 billion questions anymore:
    Marksman, Ranger, Nightblade, Blink'Blade, Asstalker, Assdancer, and finally The Hoko Spec™
    Hoko, teaching noobs the way of rogue pve until 12/20/11.

  10. #10
    Shield of Telara
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    1. You have no heal debuffs. Go 15 into inf for anathema or go NB for fell blades.
    2. Even R8 rogues have a tough time killing healing clerics, even 2v1. The amount of mitigation they get from their armor, + some of their skills(like the 50% incoming dmg debuff) + the fact that healing isn't mitgated by armor, but damage is makes them incredibly hard to kill... I've saw groups of 6+ beating on a healing cleric and it took them a good 15-20 seconds to wear them down.
    3. Neither of your specs are really good for killing a healing cleric. MM can be good against dps clerics, but a straight healing cleric.. pfft.
    4. You're rank 3. Rogues don't really become effective until Rank 6... especially not against higher ranks.
    Snuggles - R40 Rogue : Snugglybear - R36 Mage
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    Its gotta be a troll. Look at the title.

    Obvious reference to 2 girls, 1cup.

  12. #12
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrifeV View Post
    1. You have no heal debuffs. Go 15 into inf for anathema or go NB for fell blades.
    I still think Anathema needs a rework, along with most of our PvP soul. It takes a single GCD to cleanse it, then you can't cast it again for 30s...that's just plain stupid. The amount of people who are too stupid to cleanse it on the other hand is absolutely hilarious...so many bads on the other classes who are used to easy mode. Their honeymoon is just about over...the amount of QQ will be epic.

  13. #13
    Rift Master blackweb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jibikaorift View Post
    I agree with this. If 2 Rogues can't out-damage a Cleric healing just because that Cleric has better equipment, then the pvp problem is even more worse. It's either too gear-dependent or Cleric is too hard to kill without any decent -healing debuff. Or both.

    I know my Ranger has a hard time even hurting 50% of a cleric's health. I can spam all my arrows and still won't hurt him. I am only lvl 26 though. I basically just doesn't even bother hitting a cleric.
    I dont know that lvl 26 is a valid comparison but I see your point. I am talking about 2 lvl 50s with pvp and T2 dungeon gear vs. 1 cleric.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calo View Post
    I still think Anathema needs a rework, along with most of our PvP soul. It takes a single GCD to cleanse it, then you can't cast it again for 30s...that's just plain stupid. The amount of people who are too stupid to cleanse it on the other hand is absolutely hilarious...so many bads on the other classes who are used to easy mode. Their honeymoon is just about over...the amount of QQ will be epic.
    Yea, I agree... I think it should be put on as a weapon enchantment and proc like the other ones... that would get rid of one of the problems with range... right now a 51 MM / 15 INf has to move into apply the heal debuff which is annoying. And yea... 1.5 is going to release and the rogue threads about OP are going to be epic.
    Snuggles - R40 Rogue : Snugglybear - R36 Mage
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  15. #15
    Rift Master blackweb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunzip View Post
    Did you apply a healing debuff to the healing Cleric?
    Yes I applied the super-assassin-rogue-healing-debuff to the cleric. LOLWUT?

    Yea I pulled a fully buffed dire wolf out of my *** and used it on the cleric. NICE!

    I told you, we were both assassins, ie. no healing debuff. I guess you could call a bleed a healing debuff but not a very good one.

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