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Thread: PTS 1.5 Rogue spec thoughts

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Default PTS 1.5 Rogue spec thoughts

    34ass/24bd/8rs
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...bM.Vf0A0s0M.Vc

    Macro:
    #show Puncture
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast puncture
    cast backstab
    cast precision strike
    cast quick strike
    cast keen strike

    just open w/ jagged, keep up Annihilate/Impale, fill in with Deadly Strike

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    33ass/22bd/11nb
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M....Vf0I0s0M.V0xz

    34ass/24bd/10mm
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...M.Vf0I0s0M.x0x
    Last edited by dMULLz; 09-14-2011 at 12:27 AM.

  2. #2
    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
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    32sin is bad, the change to impale is a dps loss as your final blow dmg is based upon impale being on the target which means you have to impale FB FB impale which is a dps loss, thus making any 32+ sin build not competitive, much better to spam deadly strike and lower sin to 22 or less.

    i wanted sin to be good, i tested with every build possible, and none of them even beat my hoko spec, let alone sabodancer.
    Useful Rogue guides since I don't want to answer 50 billion questions anymore:
    Marksman, Ranger, Nightblade, Blink'Blade, Asstalker, Assdancer, and finally The Hoko Spec™
    Hoko, teaching noobs the way of rogue pve until 12/20/11.

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    With Contra Tempo you can routinely land 3 FBs per Impale with any kinda energy buff.

  4. #4
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hokonoso View Post
    32sin is bad, the change to impale is a dps loss as your final blow dmg is based upon impale being on the target which means you have to impale FB FB impale which is a dps loss, thus making any 32+ sin build not competitive, much better to spam deadly strike and lower sin to 22 or less.

    i wanted sin to be good, i tested with every build possible, and none of them even beat my hoko spec, let alone sabodancer.
    This is what I've been saying, but not many people seem to be taking note. With the shorter duration of Impale, the Final Blow increases should be made passive or packed into another ability. It would take a larger damage buff than they have currently given to account for the lost damage over time from less Final Blows otherwise.

    Our "burst" finisher shouldn't rely on our DoT finisher anyway, that just limits our options in a fight.

  5. #5
    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurieg View Post
    With Contra Tempo you can routinely land 3 FBs per Impale with any kinda energy buff.
    with any other spec, you can spam your favorite finisher... sin will lose come 1.5 for pve dps because of the impale change, sure you can use a deadly dance version but impale is now a dps loss since it's duration is too short (unlike currently on live).
    Useful Rogue guides since I don't want to answer 50 billion questions anymore:
    Marksman, Ranger, Nightblade, Blink'Blade, Asstalker, Assdancer, and finally The Hoko Spec™
    Hoko, teaching noobs the way of rogue pve until 12/20/11.

  6. #6
    Plane Touched TourneAsunder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hokonoso View Post
    32sin is bad, the change to impale is a dps loss as your final blow dmg is based upon impale being on the target which means you have to impale FB FB impale which is a dps loss, thus making any 32+ sin build not competitive, much better to spam deadly strike and lower sin to 22 or less.

    i wanted sin to be good, i tested with every build possible, and none of them even beat my hoko spec, let alone sabodancer.
    What about for pvp Hoko? I believe that you tested various rogue builds against a Warr...did Sin suffer greatly compared to a NB/MM type combination?

    Kinda wondering what to expect PvP wise- since the RS soul just seems to have some odd damage modifications and not added survivability against heavy burst.

    It just seems like the rogue enhancements to some souls should rip right into a Bard with little effort...or will it be mostly the same as current?...(normally, the erad MM himself is able to be handled due to the quick Guard phase toggles and him having to run once anything besides the Bard targets him/NB's lay out damage but are swallowed by the team before they can kill the Bard/Sins open, Bleed, Serp Strike...Bard Heals it all off/Sin w/BD can quickly put some hurt on a Bard if you linger around long enough...but currently we have the option to not linger.)
    ...You know the way
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  7. #7
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    Yeah, I wouldn't run Sin in PvE, the changes were made purely for PvP enhancements. Our bleeds had their total damage nerfed in exchange for 30% higher DPS while they're up. This makes sense for PvP because we needed more burst, and your target shouldn't live long enough to eat more than two Final Blows anyway, but in PvE having to apply Impale more often is a loss.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sez View Post
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  8. #8
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    What about 4 piece HK Synergie crystal, adding the cool scaling debuff ? (:

  9. #9
    Telaran
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    My plan wasnt to use Final Blow, it was to keep impale up and use deadly dance outside of that.

    was going to use http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...M.Vf0I0s0M.x0x
    or http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...M.Vf0I0s0M.V0x

    Keeping Impale up and using deadly strike outside of that. w/ the same macro from above

    Final Blow would only have any kind of good use is if it was w/ 2pc synergy crystal.

    Have not fully tested the specs
    Last edited by dMULLz; 09-14-2011 at 06:38 AM.

  10. #10
    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TourneAsunder View Post
    What about for pvp Hoko? I believe that you tested various rogue builds against a Warr...did Sin suffer greatly compared to a NB/MM type combination?

    Kinda wondering what to expect PvP wise- since the RS soul just seems to have some odd damage modifications and not added survivability against heavy burst.

    It just seems like the rogue enhancements to some souls should rip right into a Bard with little effort...or will it be mostly the same as current?...(normally, the erad MM himself is able to be handled due to the quick Guard phase toggles and him having to run once anything besides the Bard targets him/NB's lay out damage but are swallowed by the team before they can kill the Bard/Sins open, Bleed, Serp Strike...Bard Heals it all off/Sin w/BD can quickly put some hurt on a Bard if you linger around long enough...but currently we have the option to not linger.)
    pvp you will still want to go 51sin but even if you take 0bd for side steps, it's not enough to kill a warrior, you will lose a duel, but in a real fight you can slip away and run away or call for help, sin is super squishy even with the new heal, nb has cooldowns which makes it less squishy and allows you to go toe-toe with a warrior.
    Useful Rogue guides since I don't want to answer 50 billion questions anymore:
    Marksman, Ranger, Nightblade, Blink'Blade, Asstalker, Assdancer, and finally The Hoko Spec™
    Hoko, teaching noobs the way of rogue pve until 12/20/11.

  11. #11
    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dMULLz View Post
    My plan wasnt to use Final Blow, it was to keep impale up and use deadly dance outside of that.

    was going to use http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...M.Vf0I0s0M.x0x
    or http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...M.Vf0I0s0M.V0x

    Keeping Impale up and using deadly strike outside of that. w/ the same macro from above

    Final Blow would only have any kind of good use is if it was w/ 2pc synergy crystal.

    Have not fully tested the specs
    due to duration of impale, it will be a dps loss compared to spamming deadly dance, thus making 32sin pointless as all you gain dpswise from 22sin is impale and mods for it (if not using final blow). slip away is not a pve talent...
    Useful Rogue guides since I don't want to answer 50 billion questions anymore:
    Marksman, Ranger, Nightblade, Blink'Blade, Asstalker, Assdancer, and finally The Hoko Spec™
    Hoko, teaching noobs the way of rogue pve until 12/20/11.

  12. #12
    Official Rift Founding Fan Site Operator Draegan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hokonoso View Post
    32sin is bad, the change to impale is a dps loss as your final blow dmg is based upon impale being on the target which means you have to impale FB FB impale which is a dps loss, thus making any 32+ sin build not competitive, much better to spam deadly strike and lower sin to 22 or less.

    i wanted sin to be good, i tested with every build possible, and none of them even beat my hoko spec, let alone sabodancer.
    It's not exactly bad, but it's not good either. But yeah, it sucks because of the Impale change. Final blow got nerfed.

    It's better for PVP I guess, **** for PVE.


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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hokonoso View Post
    pvp you will still want to go 51sin but even if you take 0bd for side steps, it's not enough to kill a warrior, you will lose a duel, but in a real fight you can slip away and run away or call for help, sin is super squishy even with the new heal, nb has cooldowns which makes it less squishy and allows you to go toe-toe with a warrior.
    I'm not sure though. I haven't tested on PTS because of all the wackiness with stats right now, but I'd think that with new Brew and Leeching and Exposed, plus Cut and Run, you could probably pull it off with your CDs up as Sin.

    Use Expose, wait about 10 seconds to wind down the cooldown, open with Jagged, get Impale up, slip and use Expose once it's back up to keep him in combat (and tack on another 1K+ damage, thanks to the buffs to Expose), re-open with Paralyze and get Impale back up, then start getting some distance and bow/gun him; when he Riftwalks use CnR and Foul Play, etc.

    With improved healing and MUCH improved damage, I think it could be done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sez View Post
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  14. #14
    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isila View Post
    I'm not sure though. I haven't tested on PTS because of all the wackiness with stats right now, but I'd think that with new Brew and Leeching and Exposed, plus Cut and Run, you could probably pull it off with your CDs up as Sin.

    Use Expose, wait about 10 seconds to wind down the cooldown, open with Jagged, get Impale up, slip and use Expose once it's back up to keep him in combat (and tack on another 1K+ damage, thanks to the buffs to Expose), re-open with Paralyze and get Impale back up, then start getting some distance and bow/gun him; when he Riftwalks use CnR and Foul Play, etc.

    With improved healing and MUCH improved damage, I think it could be done.
    51sin was no match for r8 warrior, im only basing it off that. the issue was standing toe-toe with a warrior and only nb could do that, sin failed miserably.

    and this is dps warrior specs, neither can kill shield warriors.
    Useful Rogue guides since I don't want to answer 50 billion questions anymore:
    Marksman, Ranger, Nightblade, Blink'Blade, Asstalker, Assdancer, and finally The Hoko Spec™
    Hoko, teaching noobs the way of rogue pve until 12/20/11.

  15. #15
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hokonoso View Post
    51sin was no match for r8 warrior, im only basing it off that. the issue was standing toe-toe with a warrior and only nb could do that, sin failed miserably.

    and this is dps warrior specs, neither can kill shield warriors.
    I think one of the real issues here is that DPS or S&B, RB is the common component. The RB attacks make ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE. They are MELEE attacks that don't seem to be able to be dodged...I've literally never seen myself dodge anything that has RB buffs up, even with Side Steps. So you say "Well, they are magic attacks silly!"...fine, then why doesn't Cleanse Soul provide the 5 seconds of immunity to them?

    It seems to me that RB's have some kind of special status where there is no way to defend against them - this should really be looked into. I'm OK with not being able to kill a S&B Warrior, that should be something a Rogue avoids. That being said, if a Sin Rogue opens up on a DPS Warrior from stealth, it should at least be a toss-up as to who will win at a minimum.

    *EDIT* Even back when people were whining about Parachamps and Parry-gods, whether or not I could kill them was at least close to a toss-up. Right now I'm not sure what to think about these results on test...probably won't know until it is live whether or not they did enough. They are changing some things on other classes as well, so it is very difficult to decide how this is all going to mesh.
    Last edited by Calo; 09-14-2011 at 07:15 AM.

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