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Thread: Bard as a true healer, why not?

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    Rift Disciple Steelwind1's Avatar
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    Default Bard as a true healer, why not?

    As a general rule in most MMO's I generally believe in creating a selfish character (dps) and a selfless character (heals/tank/support). After decking my main out (Pyro mage), I decided to roll a new character. I have always loved the Bard class and it was a truly amazing class in my experience in other games.

    This lead me to my Bard in Rift and as I draw near to 50, I see a serious problem on the horizon. In any non raid group, Bards are not wanted/needed. Talking to other Bards, they simply change their spec to dps for non raid groups. If I want to dps, I play my mage and have no desire to play rogue dps roles. So I see myself having issues when I want to queue for dungeons as a Bard and also see myself refusing to switch specs if they ask.

    This seems as a serious design flaw on Trions part that may or may have not been intended. So this brings me to my thought. Why can't Bards be tuned as viable healers? Is this only due to the lack of having mana but energy instead? Is it OPed for a healer to heal based on evergy not mana? I truly feel Bards will get a thorough rework by Trion eventually if that happens, what will that mean? Why can't we be ok healers and excellent buffers? Don't get me wrong we should not be the best healers but if we have the gear to support it, we should be able to main heal both T1's and T2's.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    RIFT Guide Writer Gyle's Avatar
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    Because rift was originally designed with support classes in mind. In the new master modes i think you will want a bard. The problem is not with bards, its with content being so nerfed down you can solo heal it on a fresh 50 chloro or cleric. In that environment there is no use for any support class, not just bards. Making bards real healers is something i would not be for, if stuff was just actually hard, bards would be more useful as is.
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    Prophet of Telara Venditte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gyle View Post
    Because rift was originally designed with support classes in mind. In the new master modes i think you will want a bard. The problem is not with bards, its with content being so nerfed down you can solo heal it on a fresh 50 chloro or cleric. In that environment there is no use for any support class, not just bards. Making bards real healers is something i would not be for, if stuff was just actually hard, bards would be more useful as is.
    No, with mastermodes, I'd want a support that can actually do damage. Any kind of chloro/shamicar would be a lot better than a bard. Maybe if they were a bard with points in bladedancer or something, but the point of support in 5mans in offheals + damage, in my opinion at least.

  4. #4
    Plane Touched Malkieri's Avatar
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    Make Bards not have to hit 5 motifs every 25 seconds and I'll be happy because I might not fall asleep while playing.

    And yes, as it stands 1 Bard is usefull in a 20 man. In anything else you're better off to get slightly worse buffs from hybrids that can offheal and do decent dps.

  5. #5
    Telaran
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    I have a 51 bard spec for raiding and only for raiding. The healing and dps are both pitiful, but the buffs they provide really boost the group. I have a G510 keyboard so I let it cast my motifs for me every 25 seconds, but past that it does feel like a worthless, boring class (motifs, cadence, cadence, coda, voj every 2 min, etc). I play the spec because it helps the group and lets us complete raids, but it just never feels like I'm contributing.

  6. #6
    Ascendant Kyera's Avatar
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    I would rather see Trion just add new souls to give warriors and rogues a healing soul of some kind and mages the option to tank, so everything is covered, rather than try to completely rebuild a core class.

    I doubt I will see that happen and the design might scare me if they did.

    Granted, the rebuild did work pretty well for Dominators, though it didn't change their intended role.
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    Official Rift Founding Fan Site Operator Draegan's Avatar
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    Sure, why not?

    However I'd like to see Trion make Bards an actuall support soul rather than just a soul that gives Motifs and Verse of Joy.

    I'll take some debuffs that don't have better versions in other callings (Archon) and actually good buffs like Spotter's.


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    Rift Chaser Drathmar's Avatar
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    Ways to fix bard:

    Increase AP scaling on Cadence by a bit more, should be doing slightly less per tick than keen blade or savage strike (which both crit for 850 in my current gear, cadence for 300, cadence should be critting for 650-700, still less dmg but closer, and maybe halve the healing, so it's not enough to actually raid heal but just help).

    Give them a new talent to replace coda of resto, 5 points: Heal 20%(per point) of damage from finisher to (2/4/5/8/10) people (based on combo points) around the target. Using coda of wrath you would heal the same as coda of resto, but would be doing dmg at the same time (like chloros who do dmg and heal at the same time).

    Change virtuoso to: Cast all motifs at once, each lasts 1 min, 1 min CD.

    Bam, done. Bard is now a true support class in line with shamicar and archon that can actually do decent DPS while providing buffs and heals.
    Last edited by Drathmar; 09-14-2011 at 07:58 AM.

  9. #9
    Shield of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draegan View Post
    Sure, why not?

    However I'd like to see Trion make Bards an actuall support soul rather than just a soul that gives Motifs and Verse of Joy.

    I'll take some debuffs that don't have better versions in other callings (Archon) and actually good buffs like Spotter's.
    This would be nice... it would also be nice if they would allow buffs from rogues to stack with archon & clerics.. I would be good with not allowing you to stack multiple cleric buffs, rogue buffs or mage buffs with each other, but buffs from different classes should stack.
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    Telaran
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    I made my guild let me main heal xRD as bard. It went fine. Bards can be viable as main healers in SOME cases. The problem is mainly two-fold. Bards have no battle rez and that's something that they need to make main healer status. Secondly, and maybe more importantly, bards have no cleanse/curse removal etc. for fights such as Majolic or some of the bosses in xCC that require a cleanse/dispel. My bard has about 910 AP in his bard spec/gear and Coda of Restoration crits (often) for about 1300+. Also have the SHOE and a bard sigil which helps with the healing. I didn't have any problem healing xRD but the majority of instances I can't main heal because of the two things I mentioned. It's kind of sad. Chloro is supposed to be a support spec too and they do WAY more damage than a bard and heal WAY more too. So what exactly does a bard bring that a chloro doesn't???? ZERO.
    Last edited by Empyron; 09-14-2011 at 08:08 AM.

  11. #11
    Shield of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empyron View Post
    I made my guild let me main heal xRD as bard. It went fine. Bards can be viable as main healers in SOME cases. The problem is mainly two-fold. Bards have no battle rez and that's something that they need to make main healer status. Secondly, and maybe more importantly, bards have no cleanse/curse removal etc. for fights such as Majolic or some of the bosses in xCC that require a cleanse/dispel. My bard has about 910 AP in his bard spec/gear and Coda of Restoration crits (often) for about 1300+. Also have the SHOE and a bard sigil which helps with the healing. I didn't have any problem healing xRD but the majority of instances I can't main heal because of the two things I mentioned. It's kind of sad. Chloro is supposed to be a support spec too and they do WAY more damage than a bard and heal WAY more too. So what exactly does a bard bring that a chloro doesn't???? ZERO.
    Bards can only heal dungeons when you are overgeared... if you had 910 AP you're what, at least fully T3 geared?
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    Telaran
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    You could probably say that, although I haven't really gotten any loot out of DH or GP at all (just have crafted Deathbringers) That's a big problem for rogues in general though. Gear. My warrior can hit 50 and out dps my T3 geared Rogue wearing only the blues he has on his back. WTF is that crap?? A rogue, who doesn't have plate, or high HPs who has WAY better gear than a warrior freshly 50 in blues has 150 less DPS. What a crock!

    My problem is Chloro is a support spec. They get raid heal, ALL their damage heals the raid, not just cadence. They have a cleanse/curse removal and a battle rez. Bard doesn't even get half of that. Oh yeah, and chloro's do about 4X the dps a bard does while healing as well.
    So the only real support a bard brings that a chloro doesn't is some crappy +ap/spellpower/crit motif, a 5% healing boost motif and 5% less damage motif. Oh and if you go full bard you get verse of joy to restore about 500 mana every 2 minutes to the raid. I'll trade all of that for what a chloro has any day.

  13. #13
    Rift Disciple
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrifeV View Post
    Bards can only heal dungeons when you are overgeared... if you had 910 AP you're what, at least fully T3 geared?
    I was main healing xT2s in T2 gear. So it's possible but their can be exciting moments.

    The pvp soul allows us access to a cleanse. While it will cleanse some debuffs, many others it will not.

  14. #14
    General of Telara livnthedream's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empyron View Post
    My problem is Chloro is a support spec
    this is where you get it wrong. chloro is a main healing spec.

    i would be perfectly ok with them making the bard a main healing soul that we could spec into more damage if we wished (much like chloro can) for the upcoming master mode content. even for 10 mans im often used as a 3rd healer. the real problem with bard is its not engaging gameplay. motifs are fine, i see no real problem with them but spamming cadence+coda of resto just doesnt cut it.
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    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empyron View Post
    Chloro is supposed to be a support spec too and they do WAY more damage than a bard and heal WAY more too. So what exactly does a bard bring that a chloro doesn't???? ZERO.
    Chloro isn't a support soul, it's a healer soul.

    Healer souls: purifier, sentinel, warden and chloro.
    Support souls: warlord, bard and archon

    When the expert instances come out bards won't be one of the souls included. When I first hit T2s (before there were guides) we tried going in with bard and cleric/chloro. Bards don't have the burst healing required - it was then that I started leveling a cleric but ended up sticking with my rogue. I generally play healers and would LOVE for bard to be able to heal well.

    I wouldn't mind if bards were more like when the game first released. Great aoe healers with no cleanse or rez, but I don't think it'll happen.

    Give us a single target heal, increase cadence and change verse of joy to a combat rez. That would make us healerish where we could pair up with a healer and do fine.
    Last edited by Mayi; 09-14-2011 at 09:26 AM.

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