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Thread: So,something I've never understood as a rogue:

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
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    Default So,something I've never understood as a rogue:

    Despite all the other changes for rogues:

    Rogues get a reduced GCD compared to everyone else.
    Rogue abilities, comparitively, are more expensive than Warrior abilities.

    Outside of BD's, Rogues have no innate increase to regen rate or amount of energy.


    How does this make *any* sense? How is it that this isn't seen as an issue and consistently brought up to be fixed?

  2. #2
    RIFT Guide Writer
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    It does come up constantly. Anyway rogues are by design limited by energy regeneration instead of GCD like the other callings. I believe the initial burn from full energy to low energy is supposed to be our burst when we pump out skills faster than normal. It doesn't really work as much of a burst though since we are energy starved like 5 seconds into the fight. Personally I like being limited by energy regeneration instead of GCD, it gives a nice rhythm to the action and it's possible to not attack for a few seconds without a dps loss because of it, as long as you don't sit at full energy it's fine.

  3. #3
    Shadowlander
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    'Able to not attack for a few seconds to regain energy without a dps loss' -- This isn't even remotely true. Any time you're not attacking you're losing dps. It would be one thing if we had *some* energy trouble, or if only SOME specs had energy trouble, but it's an inherent flaw in the entire class that goes completely unaddressed.

  4. #4
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benji View Post
    'Able to not attack for a few seconds to regain energy without a dps loss' -- This isn't even remotely true. Any time you're not attacking you're losing dps. It would be one thing if we had *some* energy trouble, or if only SOME specs had energy trouble, but it's an inherent flaw in the entire class that goes completely unaddressed.

    No, Gery is correct. Each rogue using a certain spec has an average "damage per energy point" value, which means unless you are clipping your DPS somehow, having any amount of energy below 100 will result in almost(check the next sentence for why it is almost) the same DPS. Which means, you can say "hey, for some unknown reason i want to be above 50 energy points all throughout the fight" and unless you reach 100 energy, only difference between you and the next rogue will be the 50 energy you initially stored and nothing else.

  5. #5
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benji View Post
    'Able to not attack for a few seconds to regain energy without a dps loss' -- This isn't even remotely true. Any time you're not attacking you're losing dps.
    I guess if you think of it at the end of the fight and you miss 1 or 2 extra attacks maybe (Because you have 60 energy and boss dies.), but otherwise there is no difference. Energy doesn't regen FASTER the lower it is or anything.

    If I hit my macro at 30 energy or 60 energy x2 it doesn't change anything because I wouldn't have gotten an extra attack in anyway. As long as you don't sit at 100 energy (Thus none being regened) you aren't "losing" DPS. The energy regen is your bottleneck. You can't do more DPS then the bottleneck allows for, and as long as the bottleneck isn't full, your DPS isn't changing. (Over the long haul. 1 second may change it .1 or something.)

    The fact is the GCD isn't the bottleneck, the energy regen is. So I don't see how waiting to hit 60 energy and attacking twice is any different then hitting 30 and attacking once. (Or hitting 70-80-90, etc.) You are going to end up energy starved anyway. As long as you don't let the energy hit 100, I don't see where the DPS loss is coming from. Explain?

  6. #6
    Banned
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    Um, none of this is right. Add fervor (energy regen) and an elder tablet (energy regen) and watch your dps double.

  7. #7
    Plane Touched TourneAsunder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benji View Post
    Despite all the other changes for rogues:

    Rogues get a reduced GCD compared to everyone else.
    Rogue abilities, comparitively, are more expensive than Warrior abilities.

    Outside of BD's, Rogues have no innate increase to regen rate or amount of energy.


    How does this make *any* sense? How is it that this isn't seen as an issue and consistently brought up to be fixed?
    Well, you have things like Ebon Fury and Improved Hit and Run to help smooth the energy consumption in the other souls...Bard Fervor as well.

    Is it a consolation?...not really
    ...You know the way
    It twists and turns,
    Changing colour, Spinning yarns
    You know the way, It leaves you dry
    It cuts you up...And takes you high

  8. #8
    Ascendant
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geistcreeper View Post
    Um, none of this is right. Add fervor (energy regen) and an elder tablet (energy regen) and watch your dps double.
    Because they up your energy regen, thus filling your energy bar faster. As he said, any time spent with 100 energy in your bar is a DPS loss; beyond that it doesn't matter.

    Rogues regen 20 energy per second, as a baseline. Tablets increase energy regen, Fervor reduces energy cost.

    At baseline, without buffs, you effectively have a 1.5 GCD, because it takes 1.5 seconds to generate enough energy to use a standard 30-point builder. You can hit your buttons all you like, even if your "1 second" GCD is up, you can't use an attack if you don't have the energy to do it.

    Let's say you let your energy fill from 0 to 60. That's 3 seconds. Then you use two 30-point builders to spend it all -- 1.0 second GCD between them. In the two seconds it took for you to use those, you've gained 40 energy; now you can either use a 40 energy builder, or a 30 energy builder.

    If you use the 40 energy builder, you're at 0 energy. 1 second later (when your GCD is back up), you only have 20 energy, and can't do anything for the next 0.5 seconds.

    With the 30 energy builder, you're down to 10 energy, and in the 1 second GCD you gain another 20, putting you at 30 energy. Now you can't use the 40 energy builder any more, and using the 30 energy builder puts you back at 0 energy -- and once again you have to wait 1.5 seconds instead of 1 to have enough energy to use a standard 30-energy move. The process takes slightly longer, but the end result is the same -- eventually, it doesn't matter if you wait a bit, because you cannot sustain 1.0 second GCDs anyway.

    Tablets and Fervor again improve this situation, and let you go longer without energy starving, but you WILL eventually energy starve. You will notice this on any stand-still-and-DPS fight where you don't have any natural energy recharge breaks from having to move.

    Since you will always energy starve, your DPS is limited by energy regen, NOT by GCD. As long as you NEVER hit 100 energy, it doesn't matter what you do. Time spent at 100 energy is time spent NOT regening energy, and since energy is your bottleneck, it's a DPS loss. But letting it fill from 0 to 80 without doing anything? That's fine, because you'll eventually burn off all that energy and be right back to being energy starved (energy limited).
    Last edited by Isila; 09-07-2011 at 08:28 PM.
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